Author Topic: Rote Spells  (Read 4340 times)

Offline Ren

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Rote Spells
« on: February 11, 2011, 02:01:30 AM »
I have been working on some Rote spells for a character I'm building and I came up with some questions I'd like to get some help on;

-According to the RAW Rote magic come in one specific Strength and the power/complexity etc...never change. Yet you still have to roll discipline for targeting. IF your discipline roll exceeds the targets defense roll, do you get to do anything with the extra shifts generated?

-Can you choose to Tag for aspects to increase the potency or accuracy of the spell? As in create a maneuver before hand?

-The RAW says that you can create a Rote Spell that is deliberately over your normal discipline ability, i.e. it automatically has Fallout or Backlash. Is there a limit to how much you can overpower? Say in the instance you don't give a damn about collateral damage and are willing to take out a building or two to get the job done...8)
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Offline bitterpill

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2011, 02:05:43 AM »
-The RAW says that you can create a Rote Spell that is deliberately over your normal discipline ability, i.e. it automatically has Fallout or Backlash. Is there a limit to how much you can overpower? Say in the instance you don't give a damn about collateral damage and are willing to take out a building or two to get the job done...8)


As far as I can tell there is no limit other than sanity and the GM's mandate.
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Offline MijRai

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 02:06:50 AM »
The extra shifts go the same as extra shifts with any attack, they add to stress dealt.

If you have a tag or invoke, you can use it to boost a spell if it makes sense.

I don't remember that part well, but from what I remember, it was about the spell being over your conviction bonus, and taking more stress from it. I don't know why someone would make a spell that has fallout or backlash their rote though.
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Offline bitterpill

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2011, 02:17:34 AM »
The extra shifts go the same as extra shifts with any attack, they add to stress dealt.

If you have a tag or invoke, you can use it to boost a spell if it makes sense.

I don't remember that part well, but from what I remember, it was about the spell being over your conviction bonus, and taking more stress from it. I don't know why someone would make a spell that has fallout or backlash their rote though.

If your playing a caster with supernatural toughness the physical stress in negligible and there is also this homebrew stunt which if your gm is ok with it (and mine is) makes overpowering rotes more worthwhile.

Discipline:
Focused Fallout: Your spells are hard on the environment, but they're harder on the guys that you hit with them. When you take fallout as a consequence of casting a spell with insufficient control, reduce the power of the spell by two shifts less.

I use this trick for self compelling my aeromancer who has the aspect 'The Human Typhoon' to cause lots of fallout.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 02:37:06 AM by bitterpill »
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Offline Peteman

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2011, 02:49:28 AM »
I like to put them on enemy creatures with Toughness powers. Get powerful shields that last for a good few exchanges, and if the good guys come prepared with appropriate banes, well we get to use those extra stress boxes somewhere.

Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2011, 05:00:46 AM »
This is all kind of a moot point for my character.  He has much higher discipline than conviction.

Thematically, I see him casting thin but extremely intense and focused beams of energy.

For characters like mine, rotes are not even all that necessary.  The only thing that's really good to have as a rote for me is my standard shield to use as a block if I want to.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Warpmind

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2011, 01:01:35 PM »
One thing one should bear in mind is that Rotes are, by their very nature, spells you've used so often they have become "muscle memory" - a spellcaster would be very unlikely to consistently cast a spell which goes off and hurts him over and over and over again... Seriously, if I were to play alongside a character with consistent backlash rotes, I'd insist on the character having the aspect "Bloody Masochist" or something to that effect. A character with such a high rate of fallout is probably on the White Council's Most Wanted list...
Also, I understood RAW as saying you count as having rolled zero successes on the Discipline roll, period. I'm fairly certain you don't make two separate Discipline rolls for casting and aiming, say, a lightning bolt. I could have misunderstood that bit, though, but it would seem unnecessarily clunky for an otherwise elegant system to demand multiple rolls for what is basically a single action...

Also, as an example of a rote, I figure I can bring up one of my own (Changeling, Unseelie Magic, Conviction 3 and Discipline 5):
Snowball
Weapon: 3
Single target, Hits at Discipline 5
Causes 1 Mental Stress
A snowball, for the most hardened Unseelie definitions of "snow" is instantly conjured and flung at the target, which is liable to suffer a LOT more than a mere 1 Mental Stress...
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2011, 01:51:17 PM »
I have been working on some Rote spells for a character I'm building and I came up with some questions I'd like to get some help on;

-According to the RAW Rote magic come in one specific Strength and the power/complexity etc...never change. Yet you still have to roll discipline for targeting. IF your discipline roll exceeds the targets defense roll, do you get to do anything with the extra shifts generated?
It should add shifts as usual. 

Quote
-Can you choose to Tag for aspects to increase the potency or accuracy of the spell? As in create a maneuver before hand?
You can create a rote powerful enough to require tagging an aspect to cast.  Tagging an aspect would become part of the requirements for casting the rote - it wouldn't be optional.

Quote
-The RAW says that you can create a Rote Spell that is deliberately over your normal discipline ability, i.e. it automatically has Fallout or Backlash. Is there a limit to how much you can overpower? Say in the instance you don't give a damn about collateral damage and are willing to take out a building or two to get the job done...8)
Fallout lessens the spell's power, so wouldn't be all that useful.  You could create it with a backlash requirement - even to including a requirement for taking consequences.  (Could easily see a blood mage with a rote spell requiring him to slash an arm open.)

Regarding fallout specifically, it should always reduce the spell's power.  That's the point of fallout.  (Obviously I'm not fond of the stunt above.) 

Regarding rolling Discipline to target - it's generally not worth it to create a rote attack spell in my opinion.  You'll have to roll Discipline anyway so all a rote does is make your spell less flexible.  Rotes are more worthwhile as veils, blocks, or maneuvers. 
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Offline Ren

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2011, 01:58:45 PM »
Actually bear the rote in question wasn't about you...8)

I have been working on a big Area-of-Effect spell for use against the shambling hordes of minions and whatnot. here's the base version of the spell;

Death from Above – Strength 6 (Air/Fire, Lightning); Requires Gauntlets (Focus Item)
Effect: Launches a Strength 4 Attack against every chosen target in the same Zone.
The first stage of this spell is a Maneuver that set the Aspect “Target-Locked” on the targets. The markers initially appear as red laser beams that hit the ground then chase down the targets until they can get a lock. In the second phase each target being struck by a bolt of pure electrical energy.

Basically thematics-wise it's supposed to mimic an Orbital strike, or multiple Strikes (The character in question is a Combat Warden) and I wanted to have a version that he could use that was just ridiculously overpowered for those...special occasions. Not intended for daily use, just for when the fit really hits the shan.

Hrmm...is it possible to effectively add a Catch to a spell like "Only works in open-air areas"?
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Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 02:23:19 PM »
Actually bear the rote in question wasn't about you...8)

My bad! I actually didn't realize it was you.  I didn't think you were talking about my character.  I've been awake going on 40 hours now so I'm getting kind of goofy.

Quote
I have been working on a big Area-of-Effect spell for use against the shambling hordes of minions and whatnot. here's the base version of the spell;

Death from Above – Strength 6 (Air/Fire, Lightning); Requires Gauntlets (Focus Item)
Effect: Launches a Strength 4 Attack against every chosen target in the same Zone.
The first stage of this spell is a Maneuver that set the Aspect “Target-Locked” on the targets. The markers initially appear as red laser beams that hit the ground then chase down the targets until they can get a lock. In the second phase each target being struck by a bolt of pure electrical energy.

Basically thematics-wise it's supposed to mimic an Orbital strike, or multiple Strikes (The character in question is a Combat Warden) and I wanted to have a version that he could use that was just ridiculously overpowered for those...special occasions. Not intended for daily use, just for when the fit really hits the shan.

Hrmm...is it possible to effectively add a Catch to a spell like "Only works in open-air areas"?

As for the type of spell you are describing, catches could be house ruled but they are not RAW.

As for an area attack, it costs 2 extra shifts of power(which you know) to attack everything in one zone.  One cannot pick and choose targets.  It costs an addition 2 shifts for every other zone than one.  The raw is pretty clear that attacks of this nature will damage friendlies too.

Taking that route would require 6 shifts of power for a 4 shift attack to /everything/ in one zone.

What you're describing both thematically and mechanically (choosing multiple targets) is actually splitting the spell.  This is done using the "spray" rules in the book, but for evocation.

Basically, after you declare your shifts of power and attack (I suppose it could be done with a rote too - still works the same) you then divide your power and your attack roll however you choose except there must be at least 1 to each value.

In other words, selectively targeting multiple enemies is very difficult to do and with diminishing returns.

If you really want to nuke an area, a zone spell is probably best but you can cause friendly fire that way.  I'm assuming that Evil Hat did made these rules to further make wizards think twice before calling down the fires of heaven and such.

Once again, sorry for the mixup.  Once I realized what I did I had to come back and give a more thorough answer.  

As for the rote question, if your discipline is lower than 7, making a six shift spell into a rote is probably definitely a good idea.

Since I am in the game in question, consider this.  If your character has a blanket AOE spell, you can still nuke.  You just need someone with a high enough defense, enough fate chips, or a strong enough shield to lure all the baddies in one zone away from everyone else.  Then you nuke like crazy.  :)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 02:31:16 PM by BumblingBear »
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline Ren

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 03:03:51 PM »
I already have a Spray attack spell written up but its not what I wanted this particular spell to be.
This spell is intended to be a Zone Spell, the Maneuver was intended to limit the targets to just Foes and not Friends, though now that I see that bit in italics...hrm...well I guess it will just be one big beam of death. Too bad, I liked the visual...
So Deliberately overpowering for fallout is really pointless...bugger...I wanted to do some property damage!

On a more general spell-casting note; is it possible to build an Immunity to a spell? Say I wanted to create a Shield that made a Target Immune to one particular element for a short period of time but provide no protection against anything else? I'm thinking in case one needs to do a big AoE spell but does not want to hit ones allies; pop up an anti-element <x>, cast the offensive spell, then be done.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 03:38:10 PM by Ren »
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Offline UmbraLux

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 03:56:11 PM »
So Deliberately overpowering for fallout is really pointless...bugger...I wanted to do some property damage!
If you have the shifts, you could apply a zone wide aspect as part of the spell. 

Quote
On a more general spell-casting note; is it possible to build an Immunity to a spell? Say I wanted to create a Shield that made a Target Immune to one particular element for a short period of time but provide no protection against anything else? I'm thinking in case one needs to do a big AoE spell but does not want to hit ones allies; pop up an anti-element <x>, cast the offensive spell, then be done.
A high block targeted at that element would work as evocation.  If you have time for thaumaturgy you could duplicate the power.
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Offline BumblingBear

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 04:21:48 PM »
 
A high block targeted at that element would work as evocation.

Would that actually get any bonuses?  I've actually wondered this myself several times since in the books it's stated that Harry improves his shield spell to block more kinds of things over time.

Quote
  If you have time for thaumaturgy you could duplicate the power.

This would probably be someone's best bet... but wouldn't it work as multiple free tags towards one element?  I mean mechanically that is.
Myself: If I were in her(Murphy's) position, I would have studied my ass off on the supernatural and rigged up special weapons to deal with them.  Murphy on the other hand just plans to overpower bad guys with the angst of her short woman's syndrome and blame all resulting failures on Harry.

Offline sinker

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2011, 09:49:07 PM »
I had a character that had a backlash causing rote or two and as I see it here is the advantage. Normally you take extra mental stress to pull off a powerful effect, assuming that your conviction and discipline are about equal. If you set up a character to work in a specific way (shuffling skills and foci to reduce discipline and increase conviction then adding a high endurance/whatever) then you have a character that can cast powerful effects easily and with little mental stress, as long as you aren't worried about a little physical stress to go with it. Also the reason with my specific caster was thematic (sponsored caster that took damage as she healed it from others but less damage then she healed).

Offline Warpmind

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Re: Rote Spells
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2011, 12:24:25 AM »
Hrmm...is it possible to effectively add a Catch to a spell like "Only works in open-air areas"?

I'd say it's impressively easy. Add an Aspect tag to the Rote: "Outdoors".
If you can't tag the Aspect, you can't use the Rote.
...You know the character is special, when reloading his frying pan is the right thing to do in a battle on the high seas...