Requirements for a place being Accorded Neutral Ground, any ideas?

[JediDresden]

I get that by agreement of the Supernatural powers in any given city anyplace could be Neutral Ground, but what does it take to be recognized as Accorded Neutral Ground (ANG)?  I realize it has to have something to do with Mab's approval, and the example in the Baltimore section of the RPG just says that she petitioned Mab for ANG status and it was given.  I also get that it is our city and we can say it happens however we want it to.

We actually had the idea in City Creation to have 2-3 spots that are Neutral Grounds, but not Accorded, and have them 'compete' for the status of getting Mab's approval.  I am sure that she would be vindictive as all get out and make the owners do all kinds of things to get the right to become ANG.

My questions are;  'How feasible is this to do?'  and 'What are some ideas for Mab's reqirements fo becoming ANG?'

[Saedar]

I feel like it could be handled in a way similar to how an individual or organization can be declared a signatory (example: Marcone). You get a sponsor or two and submit the requisite paperwork, whatever form that may take.

In your situation of competing places, it could be that the areas are having trouble finding a sponsor and so are eager to do favors for various supernatural factions to gain sponsorship.

[JediDresden]

I mentioned the way an organization  signs on to the Accords as a sponsor.  I will probably go with that if the party has no objections. 

By the way do any of the books say when or how Mac's becomes ANG?  I can't seem to remember, I just thought it was always ANG, but another player in my group says that it came out of the Vampire War.

[Bruce Coulson]

There would probably be an Accorded Neutral Ground in every major city, and many mid-sized ones.  The general feeling I get is that there is always conflict and tension, even if there's not outright war, between the factions.  Any time this is the case, it's convenient to have an agreed upon meeting ground, known to be safe to all factions, for meetings and conferences.  There were peaceful contacts between the Red Court and the White Council after the outbreak of war (otherwise how could you attempt to negotiate an end to the war?); these were undoubtedly meetings at neutral grounds.

As to why any given site is picked; that could make an interesting story in it's own right.  The process is probably pretty streamlined (as the Accords go), and probably a lot of sites were already neutral grounds prior to their being Accorded.  My thought is that the leaders of the major factions in an area agree to and sign off on 'place x' being Accorded.

Mac's story is yet to be told...

[devonapple]

We actually had the idea in City Creation to have 2-3 spots that are Neutral Grounds, but not Accorded, and have them 'compete' for the status of getting Mab's approval.  I am sure that she would be vindictive as all get out and make the owners do all kinds of things to get the right to become ANG.

My first thought was about how "Venture Brothers" cartoon manages to humorously combine the weird and superhuman with the banal and mundane. I imagined Mab sitting at a folding table with reading glasses, perusing resumes.

[jadecourtflunky]

I think Mac's became it before Death Masks, but not before, since Harry never mentions it, and I think he would notice.
As for the paperwork, I think Mab just chooses on her own. (I kind of get this from the neutral grounds in the baltimore write-up in YS)

[Drachasor]

I think Mac's became it before Death Masks, but not before, since Harry never mentions it, and I think he would notice.
As for the paperwork, I think Mab just chooses on her own. (I kind of get this from the neutral grounds in the baltimore write-up in YS)

It's not really important before then.  Butcher uses Checkov's Gun so much that mentioning it earlier would be a faux pas.

Anyhow, I don't see why Accorded Neutral Ground should be harder to get than becoming a Member of the Accords.  If anything it should be easier (though getting the signatures is probably easier).  I also don't see why there'd be a limit to the number of places in a city that could become this.  Theoretically, I think a City Itself could become Accorded Neutral Ground at least all public areas, if the Mayor was Clued In.

[UmbraLux]

Anyhow, I don't see why Accorded Neutral Ground should be harder to get than becoming a Member of the Accords.  If anything it should be easier (though getting the signatures is probably easier).  I also don't see why there'd be a limit to the number of places in a city that could become this.  Theoretically, I think a City Itself could become Accorded Neutral Ground at least all public areas, if the Mayor was Clued In.

Having a few locations accorded neutral ground should be fairly easy - though there will probably be some politicking over which locations.  However, an entire city (or even too many locations) is unlikely. 

Remember, neutral ground is useful for places to meet and discuss differences.  It's also a potential disadvantage to predatory powers as a potential refuge.  So those powers will almost certainly sign off on one location.  A few more are possible for convenience.  At some point they'll say 'enough - these are cutting into my hunting ground'.

[Drachasor]

Having a few locations accorded neutral ground should be fairly easy - though there will probably be some politicking over which locations.  However, an entire city (or even too many locations) is unlikely. 

Remember, neutral ground is useful for places to meet and discuss differences.  It's also a potential disadvantage to predatory powers as a potential refuge.  So those powers will almost certainly sign off on one location.  A few more are possible for convenience.  At some point they'll say 'enough - these are cutting into my hunting ground'.

Didn't say it would be easy, merely theoretically possible.

[tallgrrl]

There's a date given about Mac's and it's been there longer than Death Masks... well, what year do the books actually take place in?  I think the date I saw was in the early 1970's... anyway, wouldn't it make sense that anyplace that is 'friendly' to supernatural types, i.e. the owner (or proprietor) knows of their existence, is not an actual member of any court or faction, and welcomes them in general, and is the sort of place that both (or all) sides might wish to frequent, would petition for the status?  

I mean, if people wanted to go to Mac's back in the day, but he'd had to repair his place a couple times thanks to opposing parties showing up at the same time, and the vanilla authorities were possibly in danger of being attracted to trouble, that would probably trigger a need for it to get the status, as long as the proprietor was a responsible individual and has proven himself so (as Mac had/has).  Mac is pretty darn careful to walk the straight and narrow about staying out of his customer's business.  He just barely gave Harry a little help the one time, and I bet then he carefully considered if it would go against his neutrality status!  It was more against a vanilla human opponent and not an actual signatory of the accords.  (trying to remember what it was now, but I remember thinking about it at the time, and yeah, that was other than the case in "Last Call" BTW, and oh yeah, didn't they violate NG by doing that to his place and his Ale?)

[Tbora]

In the Baltimore example in Your Story, it says the local Neutral Grounds, the coffee shop the owner in question the caffeinomancer, simply requested her establishment be made Neutral Grounds to Mab, and she agreed.

While you could obviously change it up for your campaign, it seems its not that hard, just getting a request in to the Queen of Air and Darkness.Which come to think of it could very well be a campaign story in and of itself, come to think of it, maybe Mab requires payment of some kind, maybe a task for you to complete before she gives her okay...

[toturi]

I realise that both canon ANGs are F&B establishments with them better known for their drinks. Maybe this has something to do with why they were accorded neutral ground.

[danthehut]

I initally felt that Mac's was unique in it's ANG status.. but it makes sense that there would be similar places in other cities, if not multiple ANG's in other cities.

[Bruce Coulson]

Not sure that there would be multiple locations; each place becomes a refuge for people hunted by the Powers of that area, and giving unwanted supernaturals a lot of areas to run to makes enforcement difficult.

After all, you're only safe once you actually get onto the grounds...you're fair game until you cross that threshold.

That would also fit the medieval world-view of many of the supernaturals, where only the Church was an accepted refuge.

[sinker]

I initally felt that Mac's was unique in it's ANG status.. but it makes sense that there would be similar places in other cities, if not multiple ANG's in other cities.

You know, I kinda felt similar, which is why I usually work to find another way to create neutral ground. The last game I was in we invited hostiles to a cop bar. Figured no one's going to start anything in front of all of the mortal authorities.