"It Slices, It Dices..." Dismemberment and the Bar Snicker

[bibliophile20]

Okay, so, I'm the GM and I have a PC going sword shopping at the moment.  No issues there, he's clued-in Pure Mortal, and knows about the Fey; makes sense to have sharp pointy iron at hand. 

He wants a wakizashi... but I'm trying to nudge him in a less... well, stereotyped direction (if he actually got one, I think I'd be contractually obligated to have NPC mockage), so I started thinking about what to point him at.  And Toe-moss' favorite weapons came to mind--Calvary sabers and khukuris.  I personally like the khukuri; it's a cool weapon with lots of history and tradition behind it, and, unlike the highly hyped katana and relatives, is actually designed to lop off limbs with a single blow. 

So... how do I do that in game mechanics?  Maneuver?  Consequence?  What level consequence?  I'm not sure how to do it in a balanced fashion, so, I'm opening the floor on this: How would you handle things that go snicker-snack and other forms of disarmament (paging Chewbacca)?

[UmbraLux]

Combat effects are represented by maneuvers and consequences - dismemberment sounds like an extreme consequence to me.  I'd recommend simply describing the consequence in terms that fit the weapon and situation. 

DFRPG is too abstracted to show much mechanical difference between two different swords.  That shows up in descriptive flavor.

[Belial666]

You don't. Disarming someone is an extreme consequence if they don't die or a vivd description of their death if they do die.

Also, remember that 1-handed weapons and the lighter two-handed ones would be weapon 2. Greatswords, Greataxes, and exceptional broadswords would be weapon 3.

[ralexs1991]

The only difference is in flavor there's no mechanical difference really

[deathwombat]

Plus a kukri is cooler.
what are the concealed weapon laws like in your setting?

[bibliophile20]

Plus a kukri is cooler.
what are the concealed weapon laws like in your setting?

We're in upstate New York, so the concealed weapon laws aren't too bad, especially compared to the Big Apple, but... yeah.  We actually had a big discussion on that recently, on how weapons and such would be treated; I ended up sending out a "Gun Primer for Gamers" to smooth it out because I refuse to play "Gotcha!" as a GM (waiting until the players make a mistake that the characters would know not to make, and then pouncing).  

[Selrach]

I agree that Japanese blades are over used but I will admit the reputation is deserved. A well crafted real Katana feels like magic in your hands and have a crazy edge. 

Oh yeah don't forgot about item quality it ups the price, stress boxes, and how cool it looks.

[UmbraLux]

A well crafted real Katana feels like magic in your hands and have a crazy edge. 

This is true of any well crafted blade. 

Regarding modern swords, the real issue is finding one which is usable.  There are a lot of crappy replicas out there...good for little more than hanging on your wall.  Finding a good weapon will take some research and won't be cheap. 

Talking about weapon quality blades in general - they're all good for the purpose they were designed.  Rapiers and other (relatively) recent dueling swords are excellent weapons when movement is more important than armor.  Arming swords were excellent one handed weapons intended to be used with a shield.  Great swords gave you the length and leverage of a long weapons.  And katanas were good two-handed cutting swords.  However, the myth of 'one sword to beat all other swords at everything' is a myth. 

[Drashna]

UmbraLux has the right idea.  Different swords EVOLVED differently because they had different purposes when they were developed.  For example, the "Crusade" weapons are generally very large swords, very straight, very sharp point, and very heavy. Because when fighting the heavily armored opponent, you are trying to knock them down because it's near impossible to get up in a suite of armor on your own. And then you use the point to finish off the fallen opponent by slipping it between plates, or into the visor.  Which is completely different from the katana which was originally developed to decapitate lightly armored soldiers while you were riding horseback... and then later became a symbol of status.  Rapier and other light weapons are definitely more of dueling blades and focus on quick attacks and quick deflections. 

And while I can see the point of why you don't want to let your PC have a katana, because yes, they are very much overhyped... you're letting your feelings of the weapon (the polar opposite of your PC's) cloud your judgement.  I mean,  kukri's are just as overhyped in my experience.  Let your PC pick whatever weapon (s)he wants.  If it is indeed appropriate to mock them, then do so.  Also, keep in mind, a decent quality katana (not the cheap "pakastani steel" stuff you normally find) will cost you upwards of  $500, while a high quality one will cost your near about $1500, and the very very high quality will run you nearly $10,000 (masumune make).  I like katana's personally, and I've done a good amount of research on weapon forging of all kinds.  Just remember, 100 folded metal makes for a spectacular explosion of steel (waaaay too brittle to actually use, 10-15 folds is more than plenty).


And yes, mechanically, not much difference.  And loss of limb is definitely one of those "extreme consequence" things. That and any "stress" on the physical stress track isn't really damage.  It is more of near hits, very very minor cuts, or knicks, or the like. Actual damage is caused only when consequences are taken, or you've taken somebody out.

Oh, and I for one, am much more afraid of the guy with the broadsword than the guy with the katana.  Sharp sword means it won't hurt as much, but that broadsword is meant to shatter bones....

[Kaldra]

from the orient there are some other options

The Metal Whip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_whip

Rope dart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rope_dart

Kama
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_(weapon)

and if you dont mind being a reaper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythe

then there is the weapon of Vlad Drakul himself
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilij

though honestly if you want concealed weapons not much beets knifes, while they dont have the same reach a properly trained knife fighter is one of the scariest things i have ever seen. also a butterfly knife is one of the most amazing things to watch.

[devonapple]

So... how do I do that in game mechanics?  Maneuver?  Consequence?  What level consequence?  I'm not sure how to do it in a balanced fashion, so, I'm opening the floor on this: How would you handle things that go snicker-snack and other forms of disarmament (paging Chewbacca)?

I made up a Stunt called "Really Brutal" which obligated the target to take consequences (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21213.msg973306.html#msg973306) before taking physical stress. I'm not sure if it is overpowered, or incredibly weak.

You may want to treat Dismemberment on named characters as an event requiring Fate Points to carry off, and frame any maneuvers or consequences leading up to that such that it would make sense to Compel the victim to drop a limb.

Or, say that losing a limb could be considered a major "Concede," and losing a head would be a "Taken Out" situation.

[Paynesgrey]

The thing with good choices is they're still good even if "overused."  Weapons that work well tend to have longevity, less practical weapons fall by the wayside, usually when their owner dies and drops them.  A wakizashi would be a practical weapon, it did what it was designed for and pretty well.  Chisel point, good edge, fast and snappy, fairly concealable compared to a katana or sabre. The best weapon choice would probably be determined by the character's stats and preferred fighting style.  Speed and zip, or cleave and chop?  What's better depends on the user.

I generally let the players stylize themselves however they wished, although NPC's would pick on them horribly if they really abused some stereotype. 

[deathwombat]

My modern cowboy wizard carries a Bowie Knife though he has yet to use it..............

[Cowboy]

Also, keep in mind, a decent quality katana (not the cheap "pakastani steel" stuff you normally find) will cost you upwards of  $500, while a high quality one will cost your near about $1500, and the very very high quality will run you nearly $10,000 (masumune make).  I like katana's personally, and I've done a good amount of research on weapon forging of all kinds.  Just remember, 100 folded metal makes for a spectacular explosion of steel (waaaay too brittle to actually use, 10-15 folds is more than plenty).

Hey Drashna, I don't mean to be disagreeable because you sound waaay more knowledgeable than me about a lot of this. Just adding my $0.02

1) I got my Paul Chen Practical Pro (katana) for about $300 and it's a tameshigiri beast. Very strong and functional.

2) I think there is a common misconception where people confuse the number of folds with the number of layers in the metal. Every fold doubles the number of layers, so 10 folds means 2^10 or 1024 layers. 15 folds gives 2^15 or 32,768 layers. You are quite correct, folding a blade 100 times would be silly.

3) The Masamune blade needs a few more zeros in the price. That would be like buying the Mona Lisa from the Louvre. Except a Masamune blade is about a million times cooler than some silly painting, and in the dresdenverse could very well be an IOP.
http://sacrilegiousthoughts.blogspot.com/2007/02/legend-of-masamune-and-murasama-blades.html

4) A Rhomphoia would be a pretty cool DFRPG blade. I like the look of this one that Kult Of Athena has for $323



And here's a video of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfmIbki0cjU

[Belial666]

There's a very good reason one should pick a broadsword or bastard sword instead of a Katana; Katanas have a single cutting edge while medieval swords have two. So in a steel broadsword, you can coat one edge with silver (electrolysis is fun) and leave the other non-coated. Now you can use the same weapon against both fae and shapeshifters.