The Dresden Files > DFRPG Resource Collection
Spare Character Concepts
Sanctaphrax:
Looks like a solid character.
But Supernatural Good Looks looks a bit too strong to me. Switching trappings is worth something on its own, and +1 to Incite Emotion attacks is probably worth a Refresh on its own.
PS: Have you seen the Incite Emotion rewrite I'm working on?
Centarion:
Ya, the fact that it looks overpowered is what I was worried about, but I am not sure if it actually is. Basically, in real game terms, it is adding +1 to incite attacks and maneuvers, but only when you are fine with the target trying to have intercourse with you (you don't want to use it on a troll, for example). Ya sure, it gives a +2 bonus to seduce someone normally, but really, that isn't a mechanical advantage considering I already had a +2 bonus to seduce them with my Incite power. The +1 to presence was thrown in for flavor, you make an impact when you enter a room, but I don't know if it will come up/how important that will be (I have never rolled this in a game before).
As I mentioned above, I don't know if i agree that the switching skills thing should cost anything, the reason being that a power for [-1] that was exactly Incite Emotion (Lust) but said use rapport would be fine, you could just pretend I took that instead. Skills do the things they do as written, at least partly for balance reasons (you cant just dodge with guns for free, that is OP), but if you are spending a refresh for a power, I feel like which skill (of the reasonable options) it uses doesn't really matter (you are adding a trapping either way). Also, it isn't like Rapport is a much stronger skill than Deceit (it may actually be weaker IMO), it was really a flavor choice for me. (This power could have been Supernaturally Deceptive, and done the same thing, but with lies and incite, and would probably be much much stronger).
In any case, do you have any suggestions to improve it? I understand that my perspective on this is distorted because I made this thing. I was able to rationalize to myself why it was fair (by comparing to Flesh Mask and True Aim, saying this is weaker than both and sort of combines them), but of course, a power that does multiple things but slightly more limited may be better than one that does only 1 thing better (and it may not be much weaker than True Aim, however, I can foresee circumstances where I cannot use my bonus since the creature is to terrifying to seduce, and it doesn't come attached to a weapon 3 sword that ignores catches). There I go rationalizing again derailing my own thought.
I could see toning it down (so it costs 1), I want to maintain the bonus on Incite, that was the major benefit to the character, and the flavor of the power, that was the reason I came up with it in the first place, but we could alter or put restrictions on the bonuses so it makes more sense. I could also see making it a [-2] power (and maybe renaming it Inhuman Good Looks to be on theme, but of course if the looks were inhuman people may not be attracted :P) and adding stuff to it, I just dont know what (or how much).
I have not seen your Incite Emotion rewrite, I searched for it but didn't find it, and I would love to read it.
Thanks a bunch for the help (should this be in another thread, I don't want to derail this one, though it doesn't seem to see much action).
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 06:37:16 PM ---Basically, in real game terms, it is adding +1 to incite attacks and maneuvers, but only when you are fine with the target trying to have intercourse with you (you don't want to use it on a troll, for example).
--- End quote ---
Yes you do.
Takeout narration is up to the player. This Power does nothing to restrict it. I can have that troll feel lust for whatever I want, or I can just make it pass out from emotional overload. As long as the table is OK with that, of course.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 06:37:16 PM ---Ya sure, it gives a +2 bonus to seduce someone normally, but really, that isn't a mechanical advantage considering I already had a +2 bonus to seduce them with my Incite power.
--- End quote ---
Incite requires physical contact, can't inflict social stress, and does not provide its bonus to non-conflict seduction rolls.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 06:37:16 PM ---As I mentioned above, I don't know if i agree that the switching skills thing should cost anything, the reason being that a power for [-1] that was exactly Incite Emotion (Lust) but said use rapport would be fine, you could just pretend I took that instead. Skills do the things they do as written, at least partly for balance reasons (you cant just dodge with guns for free, that is OP), but if you are spending a refresh for a power, I feel like which skill (of the reasonable options) it uses doesn't really matter (you are adding a trapping either way). Also, it isn't like Rapport is a much stronger skill than Deceit (it may actually be weaker IMO), it was really a flavor choice for me. (This power could have been Supernaturally Deceptive, and done the same thing, but with lies and incite, and would probably be much much stronger).
--- End quote ---
A Power that can be used with any skill is more powerful than one limited to one skill. So trapping switches have a value, albeit a rather small one.
Honestly, I don't mind opening up Incite Emotion. But it's important to remember that you are making it more powerful when you do so.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 06:37:16 PM ---In any case, do you have any suggestions to improve it? I understand that my perspective on this is distorted because I made this thing. I was able to rationalize to myself why it was fair (by comparing to Flesh Mask and True Aim, saying this is weaker than both and sort of combines them), but of course, a power that does multiple things but slightly more limited may be better than one that does only 1 thing better (and it may not be much weaker than True Aim, however, I can foresee circumstances where I cannot use my bonus since the creature is to terrifying to seduce, and it doesn't come attached to a weapon 3 sword that ignores catches). There I go rationalizing again derailing my own thought.
--- End quote ---
Personally, I'd make Supernaturally Good Looking not relate to Incite Emotion. It doesn't feel natural to me, since Incite Emotion is largely psychic force and not real social interaction.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 06:37:16 PM ---I could see toning it down (so it costs 1), I want to maintain the bonus on Incite, that was the major benefit to the character, and the flavor of the power, that was the reason I came up with it in the first place, but we could alter or put restrictions on the bonuses so it makes more sense. I could also see making it a [-2] power (and maybe renaming it Inhuman Good Looks to be on theme, but of course if the looks were inhuman people may not be attracted :P) and adding stuff to it, I just dont know what (or how much).
--- End quote ---
Why not just take Rapport-based Incite Lust, and a Rapport stunt to make it better?
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 06:37:16 PM ---I have not seen your Incite Emotion rewrite, I searched for it but didn't find it, and I would love to read it.
--- End quote ---
Yo.
Centarion:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2012, 08:47:48 PM ---Yes you do.
Takeout narration is up to the player. This Power does nothing to restrict it. I can have that troll feel lust for whatever I want, or I can just make it pass out from emotional overload. As long as the table is OK with that, of course.
--- End quote ---
The power as I wrote it requires that the lust be directed towards the user (to make use of the bonus at least), that said your point about takeout narration is totally valid.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2012, 08:47:48 PM ---Incite requires physical contact, can't inflict social stress, and does not provide its bonus to non-conflict seduction rolls.
--- End quote ---
My read on incite was that you could absolutely use it to perform non-conflict seduction rolls. I cant imagine I would be using Rapport to seduce someone not in my zone, but I guess that could happen and is a benefit. I was not thinking about the use of this in social conflicts (although with my character any social conflict revolving around seduction would likely instantly turn into a mental conflict).
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2012, 08:47:48 PM ---A Power that can be used with any skill is more powerful than one limited to one skill. So trapping switches have a value, albeit a rather small one.
Honestly, I don't mind opening up Incite Emotion. But it's important to remember that you are making it more powerful when you do so.
--- End quote ---
I understand the power as I wrote it was confusing on this point. The power should have noted that you use Rapport instead of Deceit, so it is still only usable with one skill. It really isn't more powerful then.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on July 24, 2012, 08:47:48 PM ---Personally, I'd make Supernaturally Good Looking not relate to Incite Emotion. It doesn't feel natural to me, since Incite Emotion is largely psychic force and not real social interaction.
Why not just take Rapport-based Incite Lust, and a Rapport stunt to make it better?
--- End quote ---
The feel I was going for was that you were so good looking that it was easy to incite lust in other people (a truly supernatural level of good looks). It wasn't so much adding to your psychic force as lowering their defense against your incite (subtracting from their roll is mechanically the same as adding to your roll and it was cleaner IMO to phrase this way).
Basically, I was trying to do what you suggest, and this was my attempt at a Rapport stunt (except a power, so slightly better, it is one of my aspects and I am a supernatural being who's job is to look good after all). I should have just taken Rapport based incite lust (that is mechanically what this does anyway) but I was trying to avoid houseruling that power by just tacking the houserule onto this one.
Do you have a good suggestion for a power that makes incite lust better? The reason I made this power was that I didn't want to make just a numbers power like +1 to incite. It is boring, and though perfectly valid in the rules seems munchkiny (though I have to admit this is more powerful, what does that say) if only because it has no flavor and a fairly significant mechanical benefit. I have read a bunch of your custom powers and like them a lot, so I would love to get your suggestion on a [-1] or [-2] cost power improving incite lust, especially something that is more flavor than numbers, or provides a less crunchy benefit.
Thanks a bunch.
PS: I read your Incite Effect rework, it seems to be mostly the same as my take on Incite from the book (plus a bunch of added extra trappings). A few questions, you interpreted the book's Incite Emotion to also grant the +2 to blocks (at least, that is what your new version does, I did not read it that way when I read the section in the book), is this balanced (you implied you play tested some of your Incite Effect)? You interpreted the book as requiring fists in order to make contact with Incite Emotion with At Range, doesn't this make the power incredibly weak without At Range since the target then gets 2 defense rolls (and also slow down play), my interpretation was that if you were in the same zone it wouldn't be that hard to make contact, and that they just defended with their Disciple (unless there was a reason you couldn't touch them, such as they had a speed power).
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---The power as I wrote it requires that the lust be directed towards the user (to make use of the bonus at least), that said your point about takeout narration is totally valid.
--- End quote ---
The way you wrote is a bit ambiguous, actually. Whether you need to aim the lust at yourself depends on how you interpret an oddly-placed comma.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---My read on incite was that you could absolutely use it to perform non-conflict seduction rolls. I cant imagine I would be using Rapport to seduce someone not in my zone, but I guess that could happen and is a benefit. I was not thinking about the use of this in social conflicts (although with my character any social conflict revolving around seduction would likely instantly turn into a mental conflict).
--- End quote ---
Incite Emotion requires physical contact. I wouldn't let you touch me in normal conversation, even if you're pretty.
And the Power does not say that you can use it for non-conflict seduction. You can use it for lust-inflicting maneuvers and blocks, which is not the same.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---I understand the power as I wrote it was confusing on this point. The power should have noted that you use Rapport instead of Deceit, so it is still only usable with one skill. It really isn't more powerful then.
--- End quote ---
Yes it is.
See, if you had to use Rapport it wouldn't be stronger. But letting people choose to take the Rapport version or the Deceit version makes the Power as a whole stronger.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---The feel I was going for was that you were so good looking that it was easy to incite lust in other people (a truly supernatural level of good looks). It wasn't so much adding to your psychic force as lowering their defense against your incite (subtracting from their roll is mechanically the same as adding to your roll and it was cleaner IMO to phrase this way).
--- End quote ---
Eh, I dunno. I'm honestly not sure whether your interest in someone matters at all when they use Incite Lust.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---Basically, I was trying to do what you suggest, and this was my attempt at a Rapport stunt (except a power, so slightly better, it is one of my aspects and I am a supernatural being who's job is to look good after all). I should have just taken Rapport based incite lust (that is mechanically what this does anyway) but I was trying to avoid houseruling that power by just tacking the houserule onto this one.
--- End quote ---
Makes sense.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---Do you have a good suggestion for a power that makes incite lust better? The reason I made this power was that I didn't want to make just a numbers power like +1 to incite. It is boring, and though perfectly valid in the rules seems munchkiny (though I have to admit this is more powerful, what does that say) if only because it has no flavor and a fairly significant mechanical benefit.
--- End quote ---
I'd rather make any Power that makes Incite (whatever) better into part of Incite (whatever). But that's just semantics...I like the idea of a lust-based mental grapple, or area-of-effect lust. So I included those in my version...if I had any other good ideas, they'd be in that rewrite.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---I have read a bunch of your custom powers and like them a lot, so I would love to get your suggestion on a [-1] or [-2] cost power improving incite lust, especially something that is more flavor than numbers, or provides a less crunchy benefit.
Thanks a bunch.
--- End quote ---
Thanks and you're welcome.
It might be possible to work out something that doesn't directly link to Incite Lust that is nonetheless very useful with it.
Something that penalizes people's Discipline, perhaps. Or maybe a broad-spectrum Rapport boost. Like Inhuman Charm or something.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---PS: I read your Incite Effect rework, it seems to be mostly the same as my take on Incite from the book (plus a bunch of added extra trappings).
--- End quote ---
It is. The differences are fairly superficial, it's more of an expansion than a rewrite.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---A few questions, you interpreted the book's Incite Emotion to also grant the +2 to blocks (at least, that is what your new version does, I did not read it that way when I read the section in the book), is this balanced (you implied you play tested some of your Incite Effect)?
--- End quote ---
I think that you can use the bonus when making blocks. But it's up for interpretation, as is whether you can use the bonus on attacks. I figured that applying the bonus to blocks and not to attacks was fair, so I made that interpretation clearly correct.
--- Quote from: Centarion on July 24, 2012, 10:01:51 PM ---You interpreted the book as requiring fists in order to make contact with Incite Emotion with At Range, doesn't this make the power incredibly weak without At Range since the target then gets 2 defense rolls (and also slow down play), my interpretation was that if you were in the same zone it wouldn't be that hard to make contact, and that they just defended with their Disciple (unless there was a reason you couldn't touch them, such as they had a speed power).
--- End quote ---
Good catch. It's only supposed to be one defence roll, but it's supposed to offer a wider choice of defence skills.
I'll make that clear.
I figure that in a gunfight, people will try not to let you touch them. Letting them dodge or block your attacks as though they were Fists attacks seemed like the best way to represent that.
I considered removing the touch requirement entirely, but...I don't want to make Incite Emotion much better than it is. It's already pretty good, and I feel as though I'm pushing it a bit by letting people use Resources or whatever already.
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