I'm behind a magic circle and the vampire has a gun... Can he shoot me?

[JosephKell]

Okay, so I accept that non-mortals can't break a circle, even if they throw something across (Bob threw Dresden a squeeze bottle of "GTFO" potion in Storm Front, and it didn't end the circle).  So shouldn't a non-mortal with a gun be able to shoot across the perimeter?

[stitchy1503]

I would say yes, the bullet is a purely physical object regardless of what threw it IMO.

[JosephKell]

(Question 2) Would you then reduce the (non-mortal) attacker's skill roll by the circle's strength?

Example 2: So if I am behind a 5 strength circle and a vampire with Good guns tries to shoot me, instead of starting at +3 it starts at -2.  (Not a question, an example.)

(Question 3) Assuming the circle reduces attacks, I would only apply it to Physical and Mental actions (attacks, blocks, maneuvers) that cross the perimeter but not Social actions (of the non-supernatural variety).  Is this fair?

I guess non-supernatural mental attacks could also not be penalized (doing mental stress without touching is really hard without supernatural powers).

Example 3: Lara Raith can be all sexy pornstar across a barrier (although I guess she is mortal enough to break it), but until she breaks it she suffers difficulties using Incite Emotion across the barrier.  So her regular Rapport rolls across the barrier is still at Superb (actually Epic if she is seducing thanks to her stunt), but attempts to Incite Lust across a Superb Circle would start at 2 (5 Deceit + 2 Incite Emotion - 5 circle strength).

[Bruce Coulson]

It's your campaign, but I think it would be more challenging if only supernatural powers and effects are blocked by a circle.  So, vampires and other nasties can carry pistols/submachine guns/bazookas and use normal social effects across a circle, even if they physically can't cross it or use any powers through the circle.

Of, course, most supernatural nasties rely on their powers, and aren't carrying mortal weapons...most of the time...

[JosephKell]

Yeah, I think the fact that most non-mortals don't use mortal weapons is probably enough.

Most things that would use guns tend to be on the practically mortal end of the spectrum (White Court, Red Court Infected, professional Ghouls).

If I am standing in a big circle (it is zone spanning) and a red court decides to fire bomb the entire zone, there is no reason I should be granted extra protected.

[Morgan]

Probably depends on what you mean by a magic circle, if it is set up a a Block that only keeps out supernatural folks then they could totally pick up a gun and shoot the Wizard. If the circle is a Block that is or also acts as a physical shield of some kind, then they will have to beat the Block to shoot the Wizard. One of the reasons that Spiritual shields seem to act like physical blocks to a lot of Supernaturals, Demons, and other Creatures of the Nevernever is because they are really just spirits who've wrapped themselves in ectoplasm to give themselves the illusion of physicality. Things like bullets and plastic sports bottles don't have any spiritual components and should go through a purely spiritual shield no problem.

But as others have stated it's a very rare Supernatural Monster who also uses firearms, and most of them are too instinct driven to hurl themselves at the circle to think about picking up a brickbat and hurling it at the Wizard.

Which is why Harry's reaction to

(click to show/hide)

the Gruff with the submachine gun is pretty much "No, Fair!"

[JosephKell]

I meant, "line in the sand" and/or "chalk on concrete" circle.  Not block.

[Ophidimancer]

A simple circle would only give trouble to the things that would have trouble passing a threshold, so no, it won't stop a mundane bullet.

[Ophidimancer]

I twisted open both salt shakers and started pouring them out in a circle around us, maybe three feet across.  As I finished the circled, I invested it with the slightest effort of will, of intent, and it closed with a sudden snap of silent, invisible energies.  I stood up again, holding my breath, until the mist touched it a moment later.

It roiled up against the circle and stopped, as though a cylinder of Plexiglas stood between it and us.  Murphy and I both let out our breath in slow exhalations.  "Wow," she said quietly.  "Is that like a force field or something?"

"Only against magical energies," I said, squinting around us.  "If someone comes along with a gun, we're in trouble."

[Morgan]

I meant, "line in the sand" and/or "chalk on concrete" circle.  Not block.

So yeah something like that wouldn't do diddly against gunfire. A threshold is probably the best way to model it.

[mostlyawake]

Not only could he shoot you, but he could also throw a rock at you, set the building you are in on fire, lasso you and drag you out, pump poisonous gas into your room... ect, ect, ect.

A few films have shown this type of thing, but the only one I recall off the top of my head is the scene in sleepy hollow where the headless horseman throws part of a fencepost (with a rope attached) into the church, impaling a guy and dragging him out by it.

Heck, nothing really prevents the vampire from grabbing a leafblower and breaking a circle, if you made it out of salt or the like.  Similarly, he could douse the area with enough water to ground the circle out.

So, circles are really best at things that are unintelligent, or for things that you've summoned into the circle (the demon's not appearing with a gun, after all.)  It also shows how crucial it is to keep your work area clean; nothing sucks more than being beheaded by a perfectly thrown piece of junk.

[JosephKell]

(the demon's not appearing with a gun, after all.)

LOL.

Chauncy carries spectacles.

Just another reason to not summon demons.

[infusco]

Well, I'm pretty certain Chauncy's glasses are ectoplasmic constructs

Incidentally, where ARE the rules concerning magic circles? I've been looking for it.

[JosephKell]

There is a marginalia on page 230.

My house rule is going to be, they grant a "threshold" (but mortal actions can and do bring it down).  But it requires a complete "circle" (doesn't have to be perfectly round, it can be a square or a bunch of connecting sticks).

The strength of the threshold is equal to the creator's Adusted Refresh, or a practitioner attempt a channeling (even if they don't have channeling/evocation) to create one with stress as if doing deliberate hexing (i.e. upto conviction is no stress).

In a conflict the difficulty depends on what they are drawing the circle with.  If someone carries a piece of rope that is already connected into a circle, they just have to throw it down and get to it (in or out) (so maybe Fair difficulty).  But if you have to draw it (or drag a stick in the dirt/gravel), that is harder (Good).  If a severed hand is choking you (grappling), then their Grapple Might is probably higher than your circle drawing difficulty, so you just have to beat the grappling/block.

[ralexs1991]

Not only could he shoot you, but he could also throw a rock at you, set the building you are in on fire, lasso you and drag you out, pump poisonous gas into your room... ect, ect, ect.

A few films have shown this type of thing, but the only one I recall off the top of my head is the scene in sleepy hollow where the headless horseman throws part of a fencepost (with a rope attached) into the church, impaling a guy and dragging him out by it.

Heck, nothing really prevents the vampire from grabbing a leafblower and breaking a circle, if you made it out of salt or the like.  Similarly, he could douse the area with enough water to ground the circle out.

So, circles are really best at things that are unintelligent, or for things that you've summoned into the circle (the demon's not appearing with a gun, after all.)  It also shows how crucial it is to keep your work area clean; nothing sucks more than being beheaded by a perfectly thrown piece of junk.

i remember that movie! lol but before he throught the fence post didnt he try and through his hatched/ tomahawk only to have it blocked by the circle around the church so wouldnt this translate into weapons say brought over by fae (rhym not intended) from the nevernever are also block  so for example an elf archer who brought hus own bow would have his arrows blocked by the circle