Hexing and EMP Hardening

[GruffAndTumble]

I noticed that the only things that are actively hexed are electronic based. You never see harry hexus the guns of the people shooting at him. It seems that the willful hexing of something only effects electronics and an ambiant " murphy's law" effect hits the mechanical systems when a lot of magic is flying.

So looking at it like that, it could be plausible that emp hardening could help stop a direct hex.

Hmm. Based on circumstantial evidence, but in lieu of anything contradicting it, entirely plausible. I could see going with this.

[Todjaeger]

I noticed that the only things that are actively hexed are electronic based. You never see harry hexus the guns of the people shooting at him. It seems that the willful hexing of something only effects electronics and an ambiant " murphy's law" effect hits the mechanical systems when a lot of magic is flying.

So looking at it like that, it could be plausible that emp hardening could help stop a direct hex.

True, but realistically if someone was busy firing a gun at Harry, would he be trying to hex it or shield from it and run away from the shooter?

Most of the time what someone has been deliberately hexing things, it is to restrict the ability of someone to communicate (cell phones & radios), knock out sensors and security systems (remote cameras, electronic eyes), or make it more difficult to be aware of ones surroundings (electrical grids/lighting systems).  As a rule, a hex is not really used in combat because the effect itself it not particularly relevant to a fire fight.

Incidentally, another classic example of accidental hexing is Harry's rather negative effect on elevators.

[Jaxom Faux]

just a suggestion about the whole Faraday cage issue. it's been said many times that thaumaturgy is sympathetic magic... so if a real Faraday cage was there as an enforcement of the IDEA (foci) of making a semi-magic proof box it's entirely possible. basically the cage itself might not have mattered other than as a prop of the application of the ward.

Also as far as I've read in the series it repeatedly suggests that Hexing is a massive murphy's law effect and it's easiest against electronics because they're the most vulnerable to things going wrong... all it takes is a few binary 1's and 0's reorganized to stop working.

Last thought. butters suggested warp space.... who knows what effect things warping may cause other than improbability and suddenly we enter the land of hitch-hiking across galaxies.

[Midget Ninja]

I'm sorry if I struck a sore spot, but as I have pointed out earlier in the thread, and as Todjaeger just backed me up on, there is proof Butters is wrong, above and beyond the point that Butters is not a reliable source regarding magic. So, I would say that I have proof you are wrong, and you have a stubborn disbelief in facts, which makes it not 1-0 my favor, but one to negative one my favor.

And while I am normally hesitant to directly comment on another's posting quality, I'm going to have to say that if you don't work harder on a halfway decent argument, I'm going to be searching for this forums ignore function.

Your upturned nose hurts more than you can imagine. I'm going to go ahead and assume you were homeschooled  (or the fact that text is a very very bad medium for humor), because that is the only explanation for the fact that I wasjoking when WAAAAAY the hell over your head. So to be clear, I was joking.

[Midget Ninja]

Your upturned nose hurts more than you can imagine. I'm going to go ahead and assume you were homeschooled  (or the fact that text is a very very bad medium for humor), because that is the only explanation for the fact that I wasjoking when WAAAAAY the hell over your head. So to be clear, I was joking.

I'm also joking here BTW.

[GruffAndTumble]

This forum does have an ignore function, right? Would someone inform me as to where to find it?

Thanks.

[toturi]

How much actual mechanical hexing (as opposed to electronic hexing) is seen in the books? There were quite a few instances where Harry was mojo-ing and the guns still work.

What can a wizard hex either deliberately or accidently? This needs to be answered, no matter what the actual mechanics of hexing. Can a magician cause a wardrobe malfunction? Can he accidentally hex a pencil to break? Is accidental hexing more likely the more powerful the wizard?

Can pre-emptive maintanence (as stated by Michael) actually work to lessen the instances where a magician cause things to break around the house? Or is it a workaround only due to his status as a Knight/ex-Knight?

The guns that were firing at Harry may have jammed and misfired in the first place. Any automatic weapon runs the risk of jamming and misfiring. A revolver can also misfire but less likely. Kincaid has a Glock as a personal firearm, why would he be using a weapon that is more likely to fail around his principal? Or is Ivy's magic non-mortal magic?

Edit: I was wondering if (playing from the bad guys' perspective) it was difficult to use sarin against the White Council hospital. The gas itself could have been hexed inert accidentally.

[Jaxom Faux]

1. harry's car is fairly constantly out and as a vw beetle the electrical is minimal. some guns jam. elevator has issues. that's all i can remember off the cuff.
it definately seems to be a more gradual thing for passive hexing.

2. according to the game book anything mechanical with moving parts. so no, no, and yes, the older he is and the more foreign the technology thingies are the more he passive hexes.

3. since passive hexing seems to be more of a item decay bonus yes. regular maintence (such as harry's car) appears to help.

4. yep. yep. yep. because it's not likely BUT possible it can jam.  That's open to debate but technically she's very mortal and therefore yes, using mortal magic.

5. how could sarin be hexed? it's a binary chemical compound... no mechanical moving parts there.

almost all these answers come from pages 228 and 258 of the game book and having read the whole novel series.

[CMEast]

On Ivy, while she is mortal you could definitely argue that it's sponsored magic, or that the magic is innate to her and flows out naturally and unconflicted rather than the wizards conflicted brute-force approach. Or it could just be that her knowledge of magic is so advanced that she doesn't suffer from the hex effect, either because it just doesn't happen, or because she's learnt to ground that extra energy instead of allowing it to cause havoc with the laws of reality.

I think the obvious rule is, no matter how it happens, it is possible to take steps against hexing equipment but that it can always happen no matter how old or uncomplicated the technology is. For accidental hexing, the longer the technology is around magic the more likely it is to break down (with more advanced technology needing less time to break). For deliberate hexing, any complicated piece of equipment can be hexed but the simpler and more reliable the technology is, the more power it takes. With enough power you could probably hex an abacus, but it'd take hell of a lot!

[toturi]

5. how could sarin be hexed? it's a binary chemical compound... no mechanical moving parts there.

How can electronics be hexed since they have no mechanical moving parts there? If anything it is more technologically sophisticated than a handgun. It makes use of active chemical processes, it could be hexed because either the precursors did not react properly and hence did not produce the gas or it could enhance the reactive processes and degrade it so that it becomes quickly inert before it can reach the intended victims.

[Jaxom Faux]

How can electronics be hexed since they have no mechanical moving parts there? If anything it is more technologically sophisticated than a handgun. It makes use of active chemical processes, it could be hexed because either the precursors did not react properly and hence did not produce the gas or it could enhance the reactive processes and degrade it so that it becomes quickly inert before it can reach the intended victims.

ok, from your perspective electronic things have binary/electrical "moving parts".... so chemical "moving parts"  are theoretically fair game as well.

interesting, i stand corrected.

[CMEast]

How can electronics be hexed since they have no mechanical moving parts there? If anything it is more technologically sophisticated than a handgun. It makes use of active chemical processes, it could be hexed because either the precursors did not react properly and hence did not produce the gas or it could enhance the reactive processes and degrade it so that it becomes quickly inert before it can reach the intended victims.

People can't be hexed even though we are biological machines, full of chemical processes and a fair few moving parts too. I'd argue that anything biological can't be hexed. A pacemaker could be though.

[Bruce Coulson]

EMP Hardening might work...but not for the obvious reasons.

When someone goes to the trouble of protecting delicate electronics from electromagnetic pulses/discharges, they are creating a (very weak) Threshold.  Part of their will is being dedicated to the hardening, the idea that 'this device is NOT going to fail under stress'.  Even Pure Mortals can generate a Threshold, so this is just an extension of that concept.

It's a weak Threshold in game terms; not enough to thwart a wizards' deliberate efforts to hex a device, but enough to provide a little bit of shielding against the casual effects of a wizard's influence.

This same idea can be extended to any dedicated effort to keep things working around a wizard.  If the person has a real desire and will to repair and protect the items, they gain a bit more longevity and resistance against the hexxing effects.  (Calling in a home repairman won't do it; the person has to have an emotional investment in keeping things working.)  So, a government-protected work station with EMP-hardening has no additional protection; a home hacker's personal system, lovingly built and maintained by that hacker, does.

And unlike a true Threshold, it only exists if the CRAFTER wants to see things keep working; not the operator.

[GruffAndTumble]

EMP Hardening might work...but not for the obvious reasons.

When someone goes to the trouble of protecting delicate electronics from electromagnetic pulses/discharges, they are creating a (very weak) Threshold.  Part of their will is being dedicated to the hardening, the idea that 'this device is NOT going to fail under stress'.  Even Pure Mortals can generate a Threshold, so this is just an extension of that concept.

It's a weak Threshold in game terms; not enough to thwart a wizards' deliberate efforts to hex a device, but enough to provide a little bit of shielding against the casual effects of a wizard's influence.

This same idea can be extended to any dedicated effort to keep things working around a wizard.  If the person has a real desire and will to repair and protect the items, they gain a bit more longevity and resistance against the hexxing effects.  (Calling in a home repairman won't do it; the person has to have an emotional investment in keeping things working.)  So, a government-protected work station with EMP-hardening has no additional protection; a home hacker's personal system, lovingly built and maintained by that hacker, does.

And unlike a true Threshold, it only exists if the CRAFTER wants to see things keep working; not the operator.

I like it! This is the best approach to the concept I've seen so far.

[GoldenH]

Also, EMP hardening often happens by just using older technology, which is more resistant to EMPs (like say, vacuum tubes). Still, not too much better - Harry still likes to burn out lightbulbs, apparently.