Conversions for Old World of Darkness Character Types

[Deadmanwalking]

Well, for those who don't know, White Wolf Games made a variety of modern supernatural games where you plated as some specific sort of supernatural creature. These could all be made to fit in the Dresden Files, at least in theory. So I'm converting them. Specifically, I'm converting the Old World of Darkness stuff, at least to start with. This thread will be a mass of references nobody who hasn't read or played the games in question will get, but it should be fun anyway.

I did Demon: The Fallen already on request, so I'll be Copy and Pasting that here. After that, I move onto Werewolf, Vampire, and Hunter. Wraith is pretty much just not gonna work, and Changeling and Mage almost don't need the clonversion, though the latter two will get done. They'll get done last, but they'll get done.

[Deadmanwalking]

Demon: The Fallen


Basic Template:

The Sight [-1]
Mental Immunity [-8]
The Stacked Catch is Anything Not Magical Mind Manipulation [+6]

Feeding Dependency: Faith [+1] effecting;
Inhuman Recovery [-2]

All Demons have the +0 Torment ability as well, if they have Sponsored Magic, this means that any Sponsor Debt they acquire will cause them to behave in some sort of monstrous manner. It also means that if they possess a Visage they may take certain powers using the Rules on p. 92 by taking Sponsor Debt instead of paying the Fate Points. They may do this at any time, but only by taking Sonsor Debt, and thus only by doing very bad things at some point.

Demons may make deals, granting people power in exchange for the ability to draw Faith from them, even hurting or killing them if they wish. This should be considered an Invoke of the Demon's High Concept when done, and the Thrall's High Concept should be changed to reflect any powers they gain. Spending time with these people or basking in other Faith is how Demons feed their Feeding Dependency. The Demon has no actual control over these people, though they may convince them they do, and can (in theory) take back their gifts.

If a demon's Physical form is killed, he may recover by possessing a new host barring supernatural forces being brought to bear on his spirit. May being the operative word, there.

Optional Powers:

Lore of the Fundament: Channeling (Physical Forces) covers all of it. Bearing in mind that the listed elements are suggestions.

Lore of Humanity: Translate would be a custom -1 power, hile the rest could be represented by Inspire Emotion or social skills alone.

Lore of the Celestials: Full on Soulfire [-5] would seem to work best. Though that does make it AND the Visage a bit out of PC levels. Possibly some other Sponsored Magic worked out with the GM.
Visage: Wings [-1], Echoes of the Beast [-1] (for the enhanced senses), Human Form [+1]. That covers it. Can gain Claws, Inhuman Strength, and Inhuman Toughness via Torment.

Lore of Flame: Channeling (Fire) or Evocation with Fire specialties. Easy.
Visage: Physical Immunity (Fire) [-2], Inhuman Speed [-2], Human Form [+1]. Can gain Claws and Inhuman Strength with Torment.

Lore of Radiance: Something custom involving granting bonuses to allies. Probably harder to come up with than most things.
Visage: Wings [-1], Flesh Mask (The beauty bonus only, but doesn't go away when damaged) [-1], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Claws and Breath Weapon with Torment.

Lore of Awakening: Custom Sponsored Magic [-4], granting, among other things, lots of Biomancy bonuses.
Visage: Wings [-1], Inhuman Speed or Inhuman Strength [-2], Swift And Silent [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Inhuman Toughness and Breath Weapon with Torment.

Lore of the Firmament: Doesn't work well in DFRPG...though maybe as some sort of Sponsored Magic.
Visage: Echoes of the Beast [-1], Wings [-1], Inhuman Speed [-2], Human Form [+1], can gain Claws and Cloak of Shadows with Torment.

Lore of Winds: Channeling (Air) or Evocation with an Air specialty.
Visage: Wings [-1], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Inhuman Speed and Claws with Torment.

Lore of the Earth: Channeling (Earth) or Evocation with an Earth specialty.
Visage: Inhuman Strength [-2], Inhuman Toughness [-2], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Claws and Supernatural Strength with Torment.

Lore of Paths:Depending on how direct a translation, either Swift Transition [-2], Ritual (Transportation and Worldwalking), both, or Sponsored Magic (Paths) details to be worked out with your GM.
Visage: Echoes of the Beast [-1], Glamours [-2], Human Form [+1], can gain Diminutive Size or Inhuman Toughness with Torment.

Lore of the Forge: Ritual (Crafting) plus some Refinement for extra Item slots. May also have a power (at -0 or -1) to use Craftsmanship instead of Lore to determine the power of Enchanted Items.
Visage: Inhuman Strength [-2], Physical Immunity: Fire [-2], Human Form [+1] can gain Inhuman Toughness, Mana Static or Claws with Torment.

Lore of Patterns: Something based on Cassandra's Tears, possibly plus Ritual (Divination) or some variety of Sonsored Magic.
Visage: Wings [-1], Inhuman Speed [-2], Human Form [+1], can gain +2 Deceit for lying [-1] or Ritual (Entropomancy) with Torment.

Lore of Portals: Depending on how direct a translation, either Swift Transition [-2], Ritual (Transportation and Worldwalking), both, or Sponsored Magic (Portals) details to be worked out with your GM.
Visage: Wings [-1], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Swift And Silent [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Cloak of Shadows and Inhuman Speed with Torment.

Lore of Light: Channeling (Light) or Evocation with a Light element and specialty. Or just use Spirit. Yeah, it's really that simple.
Visage: Echoes of the Beast [-1], Glamours [-2], Human Form [+1], can gain Greater Glamours with Torment.

Lore of Longing: Incite Emotion and lots of it. Probably Emotional Vampire, too.
Visage: Flesh Mask (Again, no concealed items, no flaking off) [-1], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Claws (Venomous) with Torment.

Lore of Storms: Sponsored Magic (Stormcraft) is pretty much how you do this.
Visage: Claws [-1], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Physical Immunity: Electricity [-2], Human Form [+1], can gain Inhuman Toughness and Inhuman Strength with Torment.

Lore of Transfiguration: Mimic Form [-2], possibly upped to -4 and with the ability to use it on others.
Visage: Inhuman Speed [-2], Echoes of the Beast [-1], Human Form [+1] can gain Claws (Venomous) with Torment.

Lore of the Beast: Echoes of the Beast at low levels, higher up, Sponsored Magic of it's own variety.
Visage: Inhuman Speed [-2], Inhuman Strength [-2], Claws [-1], Human Form [+1] can gain Inhuman Toughness and Supernatural Strength with Torment.

Lore of the Wild: The Ritual component only of Sponsored Magic (Plants), -2 Refresh total. Possibly upping to full Sponsored Magic (Plants) later.
Visage: Echoes of the Beast [-1], Inhuman Toughness [-2], Swift And Silent [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Inhuman Speed and Claws (Venomous) with Torment.

Lore of Flesh: The Ritual component only of Sponsored Magic (Flesh), -2 Refresh total. Possibly upping to full Sponsored Magic (Flesh) later.
Visage: Flesh Mask (As under Visage of Longing) [-1], Immune to Poisons [-2], Human Form [+1], can gain Supernatural Toughness and Recovery as well as Claws with Torment.

Lore of Death: Sponsored Magic (Death). Yeah, really. Often only the Channeling portion, at least for the inexperienced.
Visage: Inhuman Speed [-2], Wings [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Inhuman Toughness and Cloak of Shadows with Torment.

Lore of Spirit: Ritual (Ectomancy), and possibly Channeling (Spirit).
Visage: Ghost Speaker [-1], Flesh Mask (As under Visage of Longing above) [-1], Wings [-1], Swift And Silent [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Inhuman Toughness, Incite Emotion (Fear), or Cloak of Shadows with Torment.

Lore of the Realms: Swift Transition [-2]. Yep, that's it.
Visage: Echoes of the Beast [-1], Glamours [-2], Swift And Silent [-1], Human Form [+1], can gain Cloak of Shadows or Inhuman Toughness with Torment.


There's the list. These are all rough approximations, and it's perfectly possible to create a character with a Visage but not the Lore, or vice versa, but it's a good basic guideline.

[Deadmanwalking]

Werewolf: The Apocalypse


Basic Template:

Inhuman Speed [-2]-To represent Rage. I don't feel the need to give them a Feeding Dependency on this.
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]

While they technically have several forms, the basic stat mods are the same. Well, they can go Glabro and maybe pass as human if they forego the Claws.

Total: -7 Refresh, base.

Note: All werewolves can be Compelled to go into berserk rages under the right circumstances.


Important Skills: Fists, Athletics, Discipline, possibly Survival. Social skills and Lore don't hurt either.

Optional Powers:

General Note: Many of these powers are also effected by the Feeding Dependency (to represent Gnosis).

Rites: By Ritual (Any one) for a beginning rite-master, or full Thaumaturgy for an experienced one.

Fetish: Items of Power, or Enchanted Items if you've got Ritual.

Totem: Some Garou will have a Totem powerful enough to grant Emissary of Power on top of their normal template, but it's usually just a spirit ally.


Gifts:

Homid: Channeling (Spirit), with Hexing, that covers most of it. Ritual (Warding) is also a possibility.

Metis: Channeling, Evocation and/or The Sight are possible.

Lupus: The Sight, Strange Senses, possibly Supernatural Speed, and eventually Channeling or Evocation.



Ragabash: Glamours, Ritual (Divination), and potentially converting current non-human form into True Shapeshifting plus Modular Abilities.

Theurge: The Sight, Sponsored Magic focusing on Spirits and Biomancy.

Philodox: The Sight, Soulgaze, Incite Emotion (Obedience), and Channeling (Earth).

Galliard: Incite Emotion (Whatever Variety or Variteties You Want).

Ahroun: Supernatural Speed and/or Strength, Physical Immunity (Fire), Incite Emotion (Fear), Supernatural Sense (Detect Silver), and the ability to turn their claws to Silver (a -0 power).


Black Fury: The Sight, Breath Weapon, Venomous to Claws, Ritual (Divination), and potentially the same enhanced shapeshifting as a Ragabash.

Bone Gnawers: Glamours, Supernatural Toughness, and Channeling or even Sponsored Magic (City).

Children of Gaia: Supernatural Toughness, Sponsored Magic (Focusing on the Sun, Peace, and Nature).

Fianna: Glamours, Incite Emotion (Various), Ritual (Summoning), and Supernatural Strength + Hulking Size (with Human Guise).

Get of Fenris: Supernatural Strength, Supernatural Toughness, Channeling (Spirit), Ritual (Summoning).

Glass Walkers: Sponsored Magic with a technology focus.

Red Talons: Glamours, Sponsored Magic with a nature focus.

Shadow Lords: Incite Emotion (Respect and Obedience), Supernatural Toughness, Channeling (Storms), Ritual (Summoning).

Silent Striders: The Sight, Glamours, Supernatural Speed.

Silver Fangs: The Sight, Incite Emotion (Respect and Obedience), Channeling (Light-can be used to counterspell), Supernatural Toughness, the same ability as Ahroun to make their claws silver.

Stargazers: The Sight, Supernatural Speed, various Supernatural Senses, and eventually Ritual (Divination).

Uktena: The Sight, Sponsored Magic with a focus on the Spirits, concealment, and ritual magic. Wings and Aquatic (with Human Guise), are also possible.

Wendigo: Supernatural Toughness, Sponsored Magic with a focus on cold, blood and ice.


Other werecreatures may follow. Black Spiral Dancers and Fomori are best handled as one-off monstrosities. Obviously, not all Werewolves will have Tribe, Breed, and Auspice powers, though real Elders likely will. Starting characters are likely to have one or two or even none.

[toturi]

Werewolf: The Apocalypse

Since this is Apocalypse, where are the Stargazers?

[Deadmanwalking]

Shit, you're right. I was using Revised, and they're listed separately there. One moment.

EDIT: And fixed.

[Deadmanwalking]

Vampire: The Masquerade


Basic Template:

Blood Drinker [-1]
Ghouling And The Blood Bond (See below) [-2]
Unneeded Organs (Recieve Armor: 1 against guns and unarmed attacks without a Weapon rating. This stacks with other armor) [-1]

Feeding Dependency (Blood) [+1] effecting;
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
The Catch is Staking (which paralyzes), sunlight, and fire [+2]

Total: -5 Basic

Note: All Kindred (I'd call 'em the Grey Court in the Dresdenverse) can be either forced to make Discipline rolls or Compelled to go into berserk rages or flee fire and sunlight.

Ghouling: If a Vampire can feed anyone their blood three times (which they recieve no bonuses towards arranging), that person recieves the Extreme consequence: Blood Bound, and must love and obey their new master. If they are human they also recieve Inhuman Strength and Inhuman Recovery (with a Fire Catch for +1), along with a Feeding Dependency (Vampire Blood) [+1] and may acquire other powers.

Disciplines:

Each Discipline will be noted as whether it must also be affected by Feeding Dependency (they'll have FD if they must). Many must, but not all.

Auspex: Echoes of the Beast, The Sight, Psychometry, and Ritual (Psychomancy).

Animalism: Ritual (Animal Control), Incite Emotion (Calm or Rage).

Celerity (FD): Inhuman, Supernatural, or even Mythic Speed.

Chimestry (FD): Glamours, or even Greater Glamours.

Dementation: Incite Emotion (Madness), Cassandra's Tears.

Dominate: Incite Emotion (Obedience), Domination, Possession (which doesn't require Master Dominator).

Fortitude: Inhuman, Supernatural, or even Mythic Toughness.

Necromancy (FD): Ghost Speaker, Ritual (Necromancy and/or Ectomancy), Lawbreaker (Fifth). Possibly Kemmlerian Necromancy, which they need not have any other powers to learn.

Obfuscate: Glamours, the ability to use Stealth +1 instead of Deceit and Discipline for the power. Total -3 Refresh.

Obtenebration (FD): Cloak of Shadows, Channeling (Darkness) or even Sponsored Magic (Abyss) at high levels. Spirit Form.

Potence: Inhuman, Supernatural, and even Mythic Strength.

Presence: Incite Emotion (Awe and/or Fear), potentially lots of extras. Ritual (Summoning People).

Protean (FD): Echoes of the Beast, Claws, Earth Melding [-1 Refresh], Beast Form, Gaseous Form.

Quietus (FD): Aura of Silence [-1 power, gives +1 to Stealth and works how you'd think], Venomous (as the Claws enhancement, but applied to weapons as a coating), Breath Weapon.

Serpentis (FD): Incite Emotion (Fascination), Claws, Beast Change, Ritual (Heart Removal)...though that last is probably used for other things.

Thaumaturgy (FD): From Channeling and Ritual to full Evocation and Thaumaturgy.

Vicissitude (FD): Sponsored Magic (Fleshcrafting). Beast Change and physical powers (for Horrid Form), Gaseous Form (for Blood Form).


And there we go, pretty much.

[TheMouse]

The Garou basic template should be -9 Refresh.

Specifically, you've given 2 points worth of Recovery a 3 point Catch, which ends up meaning that the Toughness powers cost you a net 1 Refresh. If you upped it to 4 points of Recovery (or kept 2 point Recovery and added 2 points of Toughness), it would still cost the same amount.

So:

Inhuman Speed [-2]-To represent Rage.
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]
This totals to -3 Refresh.

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]
This totals to -1.

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
This totals to -5.

5+1+3=9

[Deadmanwalking]

The Catch applies to their Inhuman Toughness as well, and is thus perfectly legal, as a +3 Catch on -4 points of powers. They're listed seperately, but that has nothing to do with mechanics or cost.

The Cost breakdown is like this:

Inhuman Speed [-2]-To represent Rage.
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]
This totals to -3 Refresh.

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]
This totals to -1.

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
This totals to -3 (because the above-listed Catch applies in full).

Which makes -7.

[Saedar]

This is beautiful. I've actually been thinking about doing something like this myself because oWoD is one of my favorite settings. Out of curiosity, how would you handle the idea of scaling powers/Disciplines? Would you just buy things individually? For example of protean: Claws --> Supernatural Senses [See in Darkness] --> Beast Form?

[Deadmanwalking]

Yep!

The actual progression for Protean would be as follows, just for example:

Echoes of the Beast (New Trapping: Can see in the Dark) [-1]
Claws [-1]
Earth Meld [-1]
Human Form [+1], Wings [-1], Diminutive Size [-1] (for Bat form)
Beast Change [-1] (For Wolf Form)
Gaseous Form [-3]

You can tack on some Inhuman Pysical stuff on wolf form if you like and can afford it.


But honestly, I'm adapting them to the Dresdenverse, where things aren't that regimented. I wouldn't worry about it all that much.

[TheMouse]

Crap. You're right. I missed that because of the order. Never mind. (:

[Deadmanwalking]

Here are a couple of stereotypical Vampires and Werewolves as PCs to tide folks over:

Aspects:
High Concept: Brujah Thug
Trouble: Temper, Temper
Other:
Rebel With A Cause
Passion Unbound
Smarter Than He Looks

Skills:

Superb: Athletics, Weapons
Great: Fists, Rapport,
Good: Conviction, Endurance,
Fair: Discipline,, Intimidation, Might,
Average: Alertness, Contacts, Lore, Presence, Scholarship,

Powers:

Blood Drinker [-1]
Ghouling And The Blood Bond (See below) [-2]
Unneeded Organs (Recieve Armor: 1 against guns and unarmed attacks without a Weapon rating. This stacks with other armor) [-1]
Inhuman Strength [–2]

Feeding Dependency (Blood) [+1] effecting;
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
The Catch is Staking (which paralyzes), sunlight, and fire [+2]

Total: -9 Refresh

Stress:

Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOO
Hunger: OOO
Armor: 1 with unneeded organs and Leather Jacket, 2 vs. unarmed.


Aspects:
High Concept: Nosferatu Information Broker
Trouble: Ugly As Sin
Other:
Know Everyone And Everything
Sewer Lore
Like A Cornered Rat

Skills:

Superb: Stealth,
Great: Contacts, Investigation,
Good: Discipline, Endurance, Fists,
Fair: Burglary, Deceit, Intimidation, Rapport,
Average: Alertness, Conviction, Lore, Presence, Scholarship,

Powers:

Blood Drinker [-1]
Ghouling And The Blood Bond (See below) [-2]
Unneeded Organs (Recieve Armor: 1 against guns and unarmed attacks without a Weapon rating. This stacks with other armor) [-1]
Glamours [-3]

Human Form [+1] effecting;
Inhuman Strength [-2]

Feeding Dependency (Blood) [+1] effecting;
Supernatural Recovery [-4]
The Catch is Staking (which paralyzes), sunlight, and fire [+2]

Total: -9 Refresh

Stress:

Mental: OOO
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOO
Hunger: OOOO
Armor: 1 with unneeded organs.


Aspects:
High Concept: Homid Fianna Ragabash
Trouble: Too Clever By Half
Other:
Charming And Plausible
Savage Under The Skin
Old Dealings With The Fae

Skills:

Superb: Deceit,
Great: Fists, Rapport,
Good: Athletics, Investigation, Stealth,
Fair: Alertness, Burglary, Lore, Scholarship,
Average: Contacts, Conviction, Discipline, Presence, Survival,

Powers:

Glamours [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]

Total: -9 Refresh

Stress:

Mental: OOO
Physical: OOO/(OO)
Social: OOO
Hunger: OOO
Armor: 0/1.


Aspects:
High Concept: Homid Silent Strider Theurge
Trouble: No Home To Go To
Other:
Master Of The Mystic Ways
Quiet Insight
Spirit Talker

Skills:

Superb: Lore
Great: Stealth, Weapons,
Good: Athletics, Discipline, Scholarship,
Fair: Alertness, Empathy, Fists, Investigation,
Average: Burglary, Conviction, Presence, Rapport, Survival,

Powers:

The Sight [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]

Item of Power (Fetish Staff) [+2]
Thaumaturgy [-3]

Total: -9 Refresh

Specializations:

Thaumaturgy; Complexity (Summoning and Binding +1)

Enchanted Items

Counterspell (5 shift Counterspell, 3 times per session) [2 Enchanted Item Slots]
Spirit Shield (6 shift Block or Armor 3, 1 time per session) [2 Enchanted Item Slots]

Stress:

Mental: OOO
Physical: OOO/(OO)
Social: OOO
Hunger: OOOO
Armor: 0/1. 3 with Staff.


Aspects:
High Concept: Metis Bone Gnawer Ahroun
Trouble: Lowest Of The Low
Other:
Hardest Of The Hard
Deformed And Monstrous
Kind To Children And Small Animals

Skills:

Superb: Conviction, Fists,
Great: Athletics, Discipline
Good: Endurance, Survival,
Fair: Alertness, Lore, Rapport,
Average: Contacts, Empathy, Might, Presence, Scholarship,

Powers:

Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]
Channeling (Fire) [-2]

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]

Total: -9 Refresh

Focus Items:

Lucky Ring [+2 Offensive Control with Fire]

Rotes:

Burn, Bitch, Burn (Weapon: 5 attack against Endurance, requires Ring.)
Everything Fucking Burns! (Weapon 4 attack on an entire Zone against Endurance, costs 2 Mental Stress, Requires Ring.)

Stress:

Mental: OOOO (+1 Mild Consequence)
Physical: OOOO/(OO)
Social: OOO
Hunger: OOOO
Armor: 0/1.


Aspects:
High Concept: Lupus Red Talon Philodox
Trouble: Hatred Of Humanity
Other:
Alpha Wolf
Hard But Fair
Quiet Killer

Skills:

Superb: Intimidation, Fists,
Great: Athletics, Discipline,
Good: Endurance, Presence,
Fair: Alertness, Stealth, Survival,
Average: Conviction, Empathy, Lore, Might, Scholarship,

Powers:

Incite Emotion (Obedience; Lasting Emotion) [-2] (Note: Needs eye contact instead of touch.)
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch is Silver [+3]

Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) [+1] effecting;
Swift Transition [-2]

Human Form [+1]
Claws [-1]
Echoes of the Beast [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]

Total: -9 Refresh

Stress:

Mental: OOO
Physical: OOOO/(OO)
Social: OOOO
Hunger: OOOO
Armor: 0/1.

[KOFFEYKID]

This is sort of neat, once again, Deadmanwalking creates awesomeness. We should create a Wiki page dedicated to keeping track of his awesome.

[JosephKell]

Should vampires have to pay for ghouling/blood bond before they take advantage of it?

This is why the were-form template suggestion for werewolves has Pack Instincts as optional.  If your character is the only were in the group, it is unfair to pay for a power you will never ever get to benefit from.

[Deadmanwalking]

Should vampires have to pay for ghouling/blood bond before they take advantage of it?

This is why the were-form template suggestion for werewolves has Pack Instincts as optional.  If your character is the only were in the group, it is unfair to pay for a power you will never ever get to benefit from.

Yeah, you do. For the same reasons that a White Court Vampire who only ever uses Guns needs to buy Inhuman Strength. He, too, may never use it, but it's always there, always an option if the situation warrants it. All Vampires can Ghoul or Blood Bond someone. There's even an element of drawback to the ability because vampire blood can heal others or serve other useful functions (done by spending Fate Points, BTW)...but if you do it to one person three times within a shortish period they WILL get that Extreme Consequence.

Unless they're unbondable for some reason of course...I think being unbondable is a -0 Refresh Power (and awesome for PC Ghouls) but rare and requiring justification.


Note: I've noted a few general Demon rules, and added a Catch (Fire) to the Recovery Ghouls get.