Author Topic: Aspects and Tagging  (Read 4710 times)

Offline Tallyrand

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Aspects and Tagging
« on: May 24, 2010, 10:30:18 PM »
Ok, sorry if this should be somewhere else, I'm new to this forum.  Anyway, I was wondering about tagging aspects.  Specifically the first time you discover or declare an aspect (say "Off Balance" as the result of a maneuver).  Now I know that you as the person who applied that aspect may tag it, and in the rules it says you can pass that tag to another player if you wish.  But what's stopping from that other player and in fact everyone else from then Tagging it as they discover it (either through Assessment or through you telling them).

Similarly although it might work differently what if it's like the Loup-Garou's 'Vulnerable to Inherited Silver' aspect.  Say my character does the research and Assess that aspect, can he then tell his friends allowing all of them to then Tag it the next time they meet a Garou?

Thanks

Offline Victim

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2010, 10:54:02 PM »
Other people can spend Fate Points to invoke that aspect for the bonus (or whatever).

It's only tagging - and thus free - the first time it's used.

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2010, 10:58:03 PM »
What he said. The 'Discover or Create It And It's Free' only works once per Aspect. You can pass it on to others, but multiple people can certainly not get it free within the same scene.

Offline AlanWhitelock

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 12:29:28 AM »
Hey Deadmanwalking,

You've outlined two separate situations, at least from a mechanics standpoint.

In regards to "Off Balance"... as others have already stated the PCs only get one free tag of an aspect that is assessed or declared.

Now, as for a Loup-Garou's vulnerability to inherited silver... usually you spend a fate point to tag the Loup-Garou's "High Concept" already knowing full well that the loup garou is vulnerable to inherited silver. Some GMs may allow you to make a Lore roll, or do some research and assess that facet of the high concept. With that assess, one PC would get a free tag. You might use it yourself, or you might pass it to another player, but the aspect may still only be tagged once for free.

One difference of note is that the "Off Balance" aspect will probably go away after the free tag (because it was a "fragile" aspect). Aspects are fragile when you get no shifts on the roll that generated them. However, if you roll really well on your maneuver to place the aspect it will be "sticky" which means it hangs around after the one free tag and may be tagged again with a fate point. Whether as aspect is fragile or sticky depends on how well you do on the roll that places the aspect. All explained on page 114 of the Your World book.

The Loup-Garou's vulnerability to silver can be tagged as many times as you have fate points because it's part of the creatures high concept. It won't go away.

Cheers,
Alan Whitelock

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 12:39:04 AM »
You've confused a Tag with an Invoke. Tagging is purely when you get it for free, Invoking is spending a Fate Point.

Offline paul_Harkonen

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 04:18:36 AM »
The Loup-Garou's vulnerability to silver can be tagged as many times as you have fate points because it's part of the creatures high concept. It won't go away.

This wouldn't be tagging or invoking an aspect, it would be satisfying "The Catch."  Tagging is different. (as is invoking)

Tagging and Invoking seems to be one of the areas that confuses people the most, so here's the short version of how I understand it.

Tagging (two ways to do it):
Assessments:  You run into an Ogre Thug with the aspect "BIG BRUTE."  You've never run into him before, but the GM states "An Ogre comes thundering in smashing through the wall shouting 'Crush puny human bugs'."  Being the savvy player that you are you look to the GM and say, "I'm pretty alert and aware, is there anything I particularly notice about the Ogre as he's coming at us?"  The GM glances at the sheet for the Ogre and decides that an assessment using alertness makes sense, and tells you it would require Great Alertness.  You roll the dice and total +5, the GM tells you "As he comes smashing through the walls, you notice that this Ogre is a pretty BIG BRUTE."  You get to go first in the round of combat and look at the GM telling him, "I know this guys is a BIG BRUTE, so I'm going to tag that to distract him while I go for his knees."  The GM nods and you roll your attack, adding +2 to the roll to reflect the Ogre not paying attention because you called him a mean name.

Maneuvers (or other added aspects):  The Ogre is now pretty pissed, and he punches you, causing quite a bit of pain.  Thinking fast, you decide to change tactics and tell the GM, "I'm not  going to attack this time, instead I'm going to make a maneuver to throw dirt in his eyes."  The GM nods and tells you to roll weapons.  You roll a +4, but the Ogre only rolls a +2 on his defense.  You apply the temporary aspect "DIRT IN HIS EYES" to the Ogre.  The Ogre is still pretty pissed, so it lunges at you.  Thinking about what you just did you decide that survival is probably important.  You turn to your GM and say, "He's got a bunch of DIRT IN HIS EYES, so I'm going to tag that while I dodge to the side".  The GM nods, and you add +2 to the athletics roll to get out of the way, this time escaping the Ogre's clutches.

In both cases, you only get a tag the first time you discover an aspect, or the first time you add an aspect to him.

Invoking:  Later on you are fighting the same Ogre as before, still with "BIG BRUTE".  The Ogre takes a swing at you, and you duck under it.  You roll athletics to defend, and tell your GM, "I'm going to take advantage of the fact that he's a BIG BRUTE and duck under his legs to escape."  Your GM nods and you hand over a fate point, and receive +2 on your roll as a result.  You spend a fate point, you get a +2, and you have Invoked the aspect.  You can do this again the next time he swings at you, as long as you have fate points.

I realize both of those are long winded, but I felt that an example would be helpful in clearing up the confusion.  As for the "repeat tagging" that's up to a GM.  Tags should be used to encourage players to use maneuvers and do their research, not as a tool for players to just stack tons of pluses on every action.  In terms of my examples, the first player assess that the Ogre is a BIG BRUTE and gets handed a "tag token" he can use to activate that aspect.  That player then turns to his friend and says "The Ogre's a BIG BRUTE, get him," and hands his friend the "tag token".  Player A can no longer use this tag, but player B can.  If both players discover the aspect independently (for example, Player A assesses it with Alertness but doesn't tell anyone, Player B assesses it with Lore [knowing that Ogres tend to be brutes] it becomes a question for GMs, but I'd allow both of them to tag it in order to reward and encourage characters with high investigation, Scholarship, Alertness etc.)

Offline Kordeth

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 05:09:49 AM »
This wouldn't be tagging or invoking an aspect, it would be satisfying "The Catch."  Tagging is different. (as is invoking)

Actually, it could very easily be both. "Vulnerability to inherited silver" certainly falls under the purview of a loup-garou's High Concept Aspect, and as such a character attacking it with inherited silver is well within his rights to tag or invoke that Aspect.

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 10:52:36 AM »
I'd definitely allow a player to invoke something's High Concept Aspect when using attacks against which they are particularly vulnerable, such as inherited silver against a loup-garou, or cold iron against a fairy.

Offline AlanWhitelock

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 01:35:00 PM »
Wow, I'm glad I made this post. I didn't even realize I was misusing the terminology. Back to the books for me!

Offline Wordmaker

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 04:10:47 PM »
I wouldn't sweat it. My group never uses the right terms. It's just "use" with us, mostly.  :P

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 04:26:03 PM »
Oh, yeah. I screw that one up all the time in real life too, I just try very hard to be accurate on the Forum or when arguing serious rules issues so as to avoid confusion.

Offline bestial warlust

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2010, 03:12:42 PM »
So what about a opponent that's out number. Say 4 characters attack one opponent. The opponent would be "tagged" with outnumber as the aspect. Couldn't each player pass this off so that the next in line can tag if for free? i would make  sense that they should have an advantage without having to spend a resource to take advantage of it

Offline Deadmanwalking

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2010, 06:40:49 PM »
Outnumbering someone is already more than enough of an advantage, what with everone getting precisely one attack action per round.

Offline Kordeth

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2010, 08:31:47 PM »
So what about a opponent that's out number. Say 4 characters attack one opponent. The opponent would be "tagged" with outnumber as the aspect. Couldn't each player pass this off so that the next in line can tag if for free? i would make  sense that they should have an advantage without having to spend a resource to take advantage of it

First of all, someone would have to use a maneuver to place that Aspect on the character (and it would probably make more sense to phrase it as "Surrounded" or something in that case). Second of all, an Aspect can only be tagged once, period. After that people have to start spending Fate points.

Offline caul

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Re: Aspects and Tagging
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2010, 11:43:58 PM »
I thought that once an Aspect is applied, only the person who applied it through a maneuver could Tag it for free, but if it is sticky, anyone can then Tag it by spending a fate point so long as it persists?