New Writer's Group from this Board

[WonderandAwe]

Going to be set up by the beginning of the year hopefully...

[Mickey Finn]

Yeah, I have to have enough time at work to throw it together. USUALLY, we're slow this time of year at work, but this year, we're not.
Grr. Argh.

[Paige]

write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...

*raises hand* ahem... Can I play too?

A writer's board sounds like a great idea and I'm always up for anything having to do with learning, practicing and improving the craft.   

I'm guessing it'll be announced on here when it's up and running and people can join.

Thanks for going to all this trouble Mickey! You da' Man! 

write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...write...

[Mickey Finn]

Bumped into a minor problem that's just a user error...I'm not used to this interface and I'm missing something. Emailed Aethon, but I think he's on vacation.
Just wanted to let you know it's coming along, just slowly

[Abstruse]

This sounds great.  My biggest problem has always been getting honest, useful feedback on my writing.  My only problem is the "members only" idea.  It seems a little exclusionary.  Is it going to be a "Joe sent me" sort of thing where you have to know someone or is the membership idea just to try to keep people from hopping on and either soaking up the material or plain flat stealing ideas without contributing anything?  It's just that sort of thing always gets my knee-jerk anti-authority going into overdrive...

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

[Mickey Finn]

It's the latter. If it's open to anybody, then anybody can wander in. If it's limitted to people who vouch for other people (and agree to a list of basic rules...and I do mean basic here, things like "I shalt not steal." Unlike most writing groups, I'm not going to say you have to read everything to post, or anything like that...that's a nightmare, imho, when there's more than one person you're critiquing), it's safer for the authors.
Some people who aren't writers but want to help may have accounts.

[fjeastman]

I'd probably at least try to give it a run.

Humdrum has been keeping me from the pen recently, rethinking the basic idea of what I'd been writing.  It wasn't ... fun ... enough. 

That and I keep getting my scifi in my supernatural.  Someplace to workshop would be ... entertaining. 

Unfortunately, I've had some cruddy experiences with online workshopping groups. 

It would be ... nice ... if there were some participation from one or more published authors.  Just because it's nice to hear some words on craft from the folks where the rest of us wish we were.

If the problem getting the board set up is hosting space or software, I do have a webhost and domain.  Pretty much the wife and I use it for tinkering around and hosting our resumes.  I use about 1/100th of the bandwidth I pay for and it has several ready-set BB programs I could dump on it and set up.  Just an offer, not trying to step on toes or anything.

--fje

[Mickey Finn]

I'll keep that in mind, should we run into weirdness with Invision, thanks!

I've talked to Aethon, and will start up on this again later this week, after the party guests go home.

BTW, the board will have some minor authors on board for sure, myself and Claudia Smith. We've both done editing work as well, and have our hands sunk deep, deep into the world of talking to authors and getting real world advice, which we'll pass on.

[Abstruse]

Most of what I write is screenplays, though I do have a novel or two I tinker with now and then.  Would that be a problem?  I guess this would be a community decision more than anything else...would these boards be strictly for prose or would any type of fiction be allowed?  Or non-fiction for that matter?

Also, what if any would be the restrictions of file formats for uploading?  I use either Word or Open Office for my prose, but I use Final Draft for screenplays which I can export as a .pdf file preferably, but also .doc Word and .htm but the formatting goes to hell and it gets hard to read sometimes.

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

[Mickey Finn]

Screenplays should not be a problem, although you may have less people with proper knowledge of format.

Same goes for poetry.


As for uploads...I'd say whatever floats your boat that the board will support. I'll probably actually post mine in pieces, and take them down as needed. (IE, when I've gotten enough comments)


Suggestions for things to put in the EULA?

(I shall not steal other people's ideas, I realize that if someone steals my own ideas that the moderators and Invision shall not be held responsible, I will play nice, etc)

[pathele]

Suggestions for things to put in the EULA?
(I shall not steal other people's ideas, I realize that if someone steals my own ideas that the moderators and Invision shall not be held responsible, I will play nice, etc)

1. If you can't provide constructive criticism, don't say anything (ie, no personal attacks on the author)
2. Constructive criticism should be accepted in the spirit it was intended, even if you don't agree
3. Have fun

ok, that's all I got.
-paul

[Abstruse]

Careful with wording or at least enforcement of that...I'm very defensive about my writing and when someone points out flaws, I tend to want to explain why I did something a certain way.  This really helps me because it will make me think about exactly WHY I do something the way I do it.  So I think that constructive debate should be encouraged rather than discouraged.  However, making sure that the debate is constructive and doesn't go into personal grudges would be important too.

The Abstruse One
Darryl Mott Jr.

[pathele]

As long as it's constructive, I don't think its bad. It's when someone reads your stuff and just tells you "it sucks" 
I think the key is that it is constructive.  debate / dialog is always helpful as long as it doesn't start getting into
"your writing suck" 
"well, your stupid"
"am not"

You know what I mean?

-paul

[Aethon]

To keep the criticism constructive, I think they have to also explain the reason why they don't like it if they don't, or why they feel it doesn't work.  I like having people say they don't like certain parts of it so I a) know what I need to work on and b) have a chance to explain to both them and myself why I did what I did there.  Which is basically what you've both said.

[Paige]

On the other hand, you can’t lay everything at the critiquer’s feet. If every time someone tells you something about your writing didn’t work for them, or didn’t flow well or might work better another way, you “debate” them or insist they’re just not seeing the masterful glory of your plan, then there’s really no reason for you to post your stuff. You’re not learning anything, you’re not growing and you clearly don’t care whether anyone besides you thinks you can write.

The whole point is to try to improve your craft by seeing your work through other’s eyes. If you’re just looking for a place where people will praise your blinding talent and then storm the streets of New York publishing demanding they offer you a contract...uh, asking other writers for their opinion probably isn’t the thing for you.

There WILL BE people who don’t like your writing, no matter how much you “debate” or “explain”. That doesn’t make them stupid, or no-talent, right, or wrong.  There will also be people who love your writing, and of course that means they’re uniquely gifted at spotting genuine genius. 

If you are overly sensitive or defensive when it comes to your writing there’s a good chance you’re not ready for critiques or public readings. If you’re seeking publication, you HAVE to develop a tough skin. Editors, agents, and reviewers can be brutally blunt. You have to learn how to take criticism, and how to decide what to do with the criticisms.

For the most part, a critique is someone’s opinion. And they are entitled to it. Trying to “debate” them into changing their opinion is what causes things to deteriorate into flame wars and hurt feelings. If you can it’s best to just thank them for their time and decide on your own whether you’ll take or ignore their advice. Debating them won’t make you a better writer.

There should be a limit in the number of back and forth posts. 1) the initial critique. 2) the response by the author 3) the critiquer’s response. And that’s it! If they didn’t “get it”, they’re not going to, either way. Move on.

As an end thought...if there is something about your work that needs “explained” it’s not exactly reasonable to believe once you’re published you’ll be able to go to every person’s house who’s reading your stuff and “explain” it. So if you need to explain, maybe there’s a problem you’re not seeing.

Just a thought.

Also, we won’t be posting in a vacuum. Mean spirited critiques will be seen and dealt with I’m sure.