Author Topic: A Nevernever Thing  (Read 1296 times)

Offline Frankto

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A Nevernever Thing
« on: May 29, 2023, 12:36:10 AM »
So yeah, I've talked about this before but I'm putting together some stuff to try and breathe some life into this game, maybe get it talked about a bit more. This isn't that, exactly, but more something I'm doing in-between. It's usually part of my process to break things down and build them back up to understand them better, which is how this started. I guess I wanted to know more about the Nevernever and the Ways, and so now here we are.

Link: Wandering the Ways
Link: DFRPG Revival Project

Basically this book is a work in progress and maybe about 20% done, but I figure it might start doing its job and maybe get people talking. Plus, who doesn't love free stuff?

What I'm Doing: I'm putting together a collection of thoughts and observations to help GMs handle Nevernever things mid-game a bit easier, and a collection of new realms and regions to populate the Nevernever a bit, maybe concretize some things to make it a bit easier to do. That's the hope, anyway.

What I Need: If anyone has thoughts and feedback, or really any opinion on whether this is going to be at all useful to anyone, I guess that would help. Save me some trouble, at least! More specifically right now, though, I'm not sure the blurb on the Faerie page helps or gives any more information than the table does. It's all just words to me now, so I could use some more eyes on it.

Faerie is one of two Realms we've actually seen in the books so far, though, so it's a bit awkward writing these since we already know about them. The other one is the Outer Gates, so after that I'll get into more fun stuff.

More on that when I have more to show, I suppose.

Version History:
  • Version 0.1: The original. See the DFRPG Revival Project folder for all versions after this one. Yes, I know how pretentious that sounds but I couldn't think of anything else to call it.
  • Version 0.2: Added the Outer Gates.
  • Version 0.3: More art! Is more AI art a good thing, or a bad thing? Only one way to find out.
  • Version 0.4: Added the Underworld, now moving on to the next section to revisit later on and add more realms and regions.
  • Version 0.5: Minor readability tweaks, preparing the document for Part 4 (of 7, plus 3 appendices... so far).
  • Version 0.6: Who knows? I don't remember.
  • Version 0.7: Added part 4 up to and including all types of geographies in the Nevernever.
  • Version 0.8: First draft of part 4 is finished, and the book is now effectively usable by anyone (with some assembly required).
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 12:37:00 AM by Frankto »

Offline Taran

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2023, 04:23:10 AM »
looks cool!

I haven't given it a full read-through yet.

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2023, 08:52:23 PM »
Glad you think so!

I'm dropping a link here so people can keep track of the project as it evolves in case anyone is interested. It's arrogantly titled the Dresden Files RPG Revival Project because I couldn't think of a better alternative.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2023, 05:26:03 AM »
Huh, interesting stuff. I'll give this a proper read-through, and some feedback, as soon as I have time.

In the meantime, have you looked through the Travel Guide section of our wiki?

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2023, 07:42:10 AM »
Huh, interesting stuff. I'll give this a proper read-through, and some feedback, as soon as I have time.

In the meantime, have you looked through the Travel Guide section of our wiki?

Ha! I hadn't, instead I scoured the forums and only found your Gates of Muspelheim, which is partly what inspired me to do this in the first place.

I'll give this a look tomorrow when it's not so late. I welcome any and all feedback! Strangely enough, I just happened to be working on Jotunheim tonight.

EDIT: At a glance, my aspect game is weak. I'm definitely going to have to work on these, I think...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 07:50:26 AM by Frankto »

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2023, 07:09:48 AM »
Alright, I read through.

I like what you've done here aesthetically; it's really quite a pretty pdf. And the tone is fun. But I'm not sure how game-able it is. I'd have a hard time actually applying this at the table.

Part 1 is in-character to a fault; most of this is advice for the PC, not for the person playing them. So I'm not sure how it's meant to be used.

Part 2 would really benefit from some examples. Maybe a full worked example of play. I'm not clear on how we're meant to assemble the various descriptors into a Way, and some of these descriptors are perplexing in and of themselves. Also, probably better to use fudge dice for the tables. I've had some luck with triangular random tables where the top left corner is all zeroes, and you move a step right for each + and a step down for each -. Not my idea, but I can't find the original post.

Part 3, I think, needs to explain its numbers more. What does it mean if Accessibility is Good or Danger is Superb? Also, I'm not sure it's advisable to have single entries for such vast and varied regions.

More specific comments:

Quote
Since we all have a brain, eyes, a limited
number of senses, but more importantly, a tragic lack any kind of
omniscience, it isn't really possible for any of us to really wrap our
heads around the impossible strangeness of it all.

Missing the word "of" after "lack", I think. Also, it's just a bit of a clunky sentence.

Quote
Conversely, Lurkers are entities who roam the Ways and prey
Travelers.

"on" travelers, I think.

Quote
You won't be surprised to hear that most stables outdoor skills,
gear and survival kits will serve you well out Wayfinding.

"stables" can't be the right word. Maybe you were going for "staples"? But that would still be questionable grammatically.

Quote
Before you even think about crossing a Way, you have to find one
first. For most folk, that presents at least a Good (+3) challenge to
Scholarship, upgraded to Great (+4) if you want to go somewhere
specific.


Scholarship seems like the wrong skill. Also, if I want to find a Way, how many stipulations do I get to make? Can I roll to find a Way to The Outer Gates? To the Statue of Liberty, through the Nevernever? From my house?

Quote
Living long enough to retire as a Wayfinder is all about
knowing how to read the signs. There's no universal language for
this stuff, so it has to be learned from experience. My advice?
Find someone who cares about you enough to teach you. Not
me, mind, but someone.
Looking for Wayfinder signs is usually a Great (+4) challenge to
Investigation, though it can be higher or lower based on how
frequently Travelers go through the Region. If a place looks
outright deadly, it probably is, and it isn't likely to have any
Wayfinder signs no matter how keen-eyed you are.

There should probably be some mechanics for interpreting signs, since it's clearly not a universal ability. Perhaps a stunt?

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2023, 07:25:23 AM »
Fair! Thanks for taking the time to go so in-depth. This is mostly me making a note to read more later, because it's been a long day.

Honestly the tone is pretty new to me. It's not in my usual style, just something I was convinced to try out. That'll take some adjustment, but I'm pretty much outvoted since I'm the only one who doesn't love it, so I guess it's here to stay. As far as the numbers go, I'm working on the chapter that explains all of that now, but the past few days have conspired against me. It's all about navigating in, to and out of a place and basically sets the tone for checks players might have to make without having to use much brainpower. Hazard Index is the same.

The latter half of the book is probably going to be more fun, since that's where I get to throw in neat new things, like the aforementioned Wayfinder, maybe new powers, new entries for new types of things, stunts, etc. So far it was mostly about establishing proof of concept.

Re: Part 2, this is interesting. Everyone seems to have a different opinion about it. Don't know what that means, but it's interesting.

Quote
"stables" can't be the right word. Maybe you were going for "staples"? But that would still be questionable grammatically.
Maybe it's because I'm tired, but I truly don't know.

I put all of this in a notepad to address tomorrow when I have time. I'll look around the forums later as well to maybe see if I can streamline the tables for FUDGE dice. You're probably right, though.

I think the issues with Part 3 are going to be addressed when I can put down my much more specific Realms and Regions, though. I wanted to get these three out of the way first, since I can't really play around in there at all.

At any rate, I'm probably rambling by now, so more on that tomorrow. Thank you again!

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2023, 07:04:58 PM »
Honestly the tone is pretty new to me. It's not in my usual style, just something I was convinced to try out. That'll take some adjustment, but I'm pretty much outvoted since I'm the only one who doesn't love it, so I guess it's here to stay.

Well, writing isn't a democracy. In the end, what you say goes.

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2023, 11:40:49 PM »
Well, writing isn't a democracy. In the end, what you say goes.

Sure! But at the end of the day, I'm not writing it for me! So what everyone else prefers, that's what I'll do. It's been... let's say an eventful week, so I haven't had time to get down to it and make any progress. A very 2023 week, as they say.

That being said, I think maybe things should calm down soon which should be good for my nerves, if nothing else.

EDIT: I took a bit of time to go back through your feedback and addressed some things. You're right that "Finding the Way" is going to need to be fixed to bring it in line with Accessibility and the rules I outline in part 3. I'll make a note to include an example of play for Part 2, but the Appendix is probably going to help a lot with that.

Actually, I may have to rewrite part 1, at least the latter half. If you have any suggestions of what you find "in-character to a fault" that would be really helpful.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2023, 01:29:12 AM by Frankto »

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2023, 06:13:36 PM »
Actually, I may have to rewrite part 1, at least the latter half. If you have any suggestions of what you find "in-character to a fault" that would be really helpful.

The Traveler Pro-Tips don't seem very usable for a player; they're the sort of thing a character might want to know, but I'm not sure how to use them at the table.

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2023, 02:03:23 AM »
The Traveler Pro-Tips don't seem very usable for a player; they're the sort of thing a character might want to know, but I'm not sure how to use them at the table.

Got it!

Just got back into writing today, things have been pretty intense lately. Going back over the section, I've added a bit but overall I've decided I'm happy with how it reads in general.

Since this is more or less written in-character, it seems appropriate to make it a colorful read instead of giving every single paragraph utility, especially since this is a relatively minor, introductory part of the book.

That said, though, I've gotten the ball rolling on Part 4, which outlines how to use the Otherworld Atlas to run a session. Luckily I thought to read back through the thread and saw my reminder to edit "Finding the Way" so now I'm doing that.

Appreciate the feedback! Hopefully I'll have a more current version ready to read soon.

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2023, 01:42:00 AM »
Still alive! Life has been pretty hectic lately, but it feels good to get back to writing. I've been stuck on abstract geography for a while now and I think I'm happy with where it is? It's all just words to me now, though, so any feedback would be welcome!

Looking back at my last post, apparently I was working on "Finding the Way" and honestly, I don't know if I did that or not, or what I wanted to change. Example of Play is still forthcoming, because I don't like doing those, and I have terrible work ethic, so I often leave things I don't like doing until the end.

Offline notstarborn

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2023, 03:54:28 AM »
This is pretty cool. Haven't read in detail yet, but I was wondering if you could slot in some Empyreal Realms? You've got the Underworld and they seem like they would be the accessible parts of the heavens. I'm thinking Dante's works, Greek Elysium, places where mortals have had heavenly encounters. Probably need to be accessed on holy mountains, that kind of thing. Harry himself thinks Heaven must be somewhere in the Nevernever.

Offline Frankto

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Re: A Nevernever Thing
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2023, 04:00:14 AM »
This is pretty cool. Haven't read in detail yet, but I was wondering if you could slot in some Empyreal Realms? You've got the Underworld and they seem like they would be the accessible parts of the heavens. I'm thinking Dante's works, Greek Elysium, places where mortals have had heavenly encounters. Probably need to be accessed on holy mountains, that kind of thing. Harry himself thinks Heaven must be somewhere in the Nevernever.

Absolutely! I'm hoping that going through and putting up the framework, fleshing it out with more Realms, Regions, Demesnes and Native will be trivial.  I'm about halfway done with that right now, and after that the real fun can begin!

I hope.