Author Topic: Easy defense against the Eye  (Read 1733 times)

Offline seanham

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Easy defense against the Eye
« on: December 26, 2022, 04:36:26 PM »
I got to thinking about magic circles, and my understanding of them is that a magic circle is a basic yet effective defense against any form of magic. I believe we have seen Butters use a defensive circle at least once in the series (sorry don't have books with me right now). It takes more complex circles to hold or bind entities, but a simple circle imbued with blood can block magic until a physical object breaks the "plane" of the circle. With that understanding, could a magic circle be used to block a direct shot from the Eye? In other words could Harry (or any other mortal wizard) simply use a circle to block the eye?

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2022, 05:18:05 PM »
I got to thinking about magic circles, and my understanding of them is that a magic circle is a basic yet effective defense against any form of magic. I believe we have seen Butters use a defensive circle at least once in the series (sorry don't have books with me right now). It takes more complex circles to hold or bind entities, but a simple circle imbued with blood can block magic until a physical object breaks the "plane" of the circle. With that understanding, could a magic circle be used to block a direct shot from the Eye? In other words could Harry (or any other mortal wizard) simply use a circle to block the eye?

Apparently not, either that or the whole supernatural community had a severe attack of the stupids.. ::)

Offline heidi_storage

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2022, 10:20:08 PM »
Considering how Titania tore apart Dresden's circle in Cold Days, I imagine that circles wouldn't do much against the Eye.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2022, 12:22:40 AM »
The Eye warps reality, your circle wouldn’t be a circle.

A magic circle is a law of reality, the same as a threshold same as gravity. All are undermined by it.

This is why even immortals have to worry about the Eye, their immortality can be nullified by its protracted use upon them because it undermines the reality of their immortality. It wouldn’t just kill you, it can unmake you.

Offline vincentric

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 510
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2022, 01:44:15 AM »
If someone powerful enough to use the EYE is after me, the last thing I'd want to do is trap myself in a circle. I can see having them on a prepared escape or ambush route though I doubt you'd have the time or the power to make one capable of withstanding a blast.

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2022, 08:06:10 AM »
and recall Uriel dismissing Harry's circle. Said it was a nice circle, but....

I think the Eye is not quite Uriel or Mother level.... but it beats everything short of that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Eye can blast Outsiders

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2022, 09:38:52 AM »
Uriel’s and the Mothers are beings which exist in multiple realities as a single being, any circle in a single reality is only attempting to capture a fraction of them as a being, most of them are outside the circle breaking its line. It’s not just a question of power.

A circle around the Eye would initially focus the reality warping effect of the Eye for a pico second before it ceases to be a circle in shape and function, and becomes a black hole in reality rather quickly.  A being of Ethnui’s power level or above might survive it, those who came into existence before our current reality. Everyone else could easily just turn into a bowl of petunias in those circumstances. That’s where power comes into play, just immortals like Mab can be eventually killed by the Eye used by them or on them rather quickly, they exist in a single reality but someone like Uriel or the Mothers can be killed eventually by the Eye because it would at some point eventually suck the entirety of their being into the black hole in reality it’s use creates, but I suspect it would take the user with it. You need the disparity in power level like between Ethnui and Mab for the wielder to survive destruction of the target. Needless to say casual observers wouldn’t survive such an encounter.



Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2022, 03:54:30 PM »
and recall Uriel dismissing Harry's circle. Said it was a nice circle, but....

I think the Eye is not quite Uriel or Mother level.... but it beats everything short of that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Eye can blast Outsiders

Yeah, I think there is a more complicated story behind the Eye.  If a simple circle could have offered protection then Mab and Odin would have incorporated one when they teamed up to take Ethniu down.  They didn't, and ultimately the Eye had to be kicked out of Ethinu's head from behind.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2152
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2022, 12:39:31 AM »
Yeah, I think a magic circle is fine for blocking "regular" magic, but not Eye-of-Balor caliber magic.

Really-major circles might work -- the one for MacFinn was supposed to be able to handle hugely-powerful beings (honestly -- from Harry's description -- much more-powerful than a mere Loup Garou! (*)).  The ones the Denarians cast, to capture & hold Ivy.


(*) Come to think of it, that Circle was really weirdly over-powered.  Who'd use demigod-binding magic for a werewolf!!?!

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2022, 04:15:15 AM »
Yeah, I think a magic circle is fine for blocking "regular" magic, but not Eye-of-Balor caliber magic.

Really-major circles might work -- the one for MacFinn was supposed to be able to handle hugely-powerful beings (honestly -- from Harry's description -- much more-powerful than a mere Loup Garou! (*)).  The ones the Denarians cast, to capture & hold Ivy.


(*) Come to think of it, that Circle was really weirdly over-powered.  Who'd use demigod-binding magic for a werewolf!!?!

Problem though, the circle that was able to confine MacFinn wasn't something thrown together, and not on a battle field.  That kind of circle might contain Ethinu though, if you could get her in it.  Harry,plus Bob, plus Spear of Destiny circle held her.. However she no longer had the eye and she was wounded, still it was a close thing.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2152
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2022, 02:53:23 AM »
Problem though, the circle that was able to confine MacFinn wasn't something thrown together, and not on a battle field...

I was more speculating on that caliber of circle as a defense... if fully-functional & fully-empowered, could it have fended off the Eye of Balor?
I'm inclined to think it could.

As you note, it's not something to "throw together" (particularly not on a chaotic battlefield!).
But -- hypothetically-speaking -- might someone have constructed something like that as a "hardpoint" defense, before the battle?

Just a thought-exercise... OP asked if a circle could withstand the Eye; consensus is "no" for the "easy defense" circle, but I wonder if a potent-enough Circle might have.

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2022, 03:23:44 AM »
Yeah, I think a magic circle is fine for blocking "regular" magic, but not Eye-of-Balor caliber magic.

Really-major circles might work -- the one for MacFinn was supposed to be able to handle hugely-powerful beings (honestly -- from Harry's description -- much more-powerful than a mere Loup Garou! (*)).  The ones the Denarians cast, to capture & hold Ivy.


(*) Come to think of it, that Circle was really weirdly over-powered.  Who'd use demigod-binding magic for a werewolf!!?!

They got the specs for Demonreach max security - that's the circle they use for the heavy hitters like Ethniu....

Offline Ed0517

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 610
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2022, 03:28:07 AM »
Uriel’s and the Mothers are beings which exist in multiple realities as a single being, any circle in a single reality is only attempting to capture a fraction of them as a being, most of them are outside the circle breaking its line. It’s not just a question of power.

I thought we had WOJ there was a set of Mothers for each universe - but ONE Uriel

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2152
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2022, 07:21:22 AM »
They got the specs for Demonreach max security - that's the circle they use for the heavy hitters like Ethniu...

"They" don't got anything of the sort.  Maybe Odin does.

But, as you recall, Demonreach is sitting atop a major leyline confluence, and it was "simultaneously" constructed in 5 different times all at once.

Pretty sure Ethniu is gonna spot that happening (and trivially avoid it).

The question is more:  of the circles that might reasonably have been constructed, what might have been useful?

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2981
    • View Profile
Re: Easy defense against the Eye
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2022, 09:17:32 AM »
This makes me wonder about the containment process at Demonreach, not a circle, are the crystals in fact one way pocket universes? Once in you can’t get out, that would make the Warden effectively the White God in relation to the inmates.