Author Topic: Something That Has Always Bugged Me  (Read 6497 times)

Offline JTass

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Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« on: June 24, 2022, 09:28:24 PM »
Several times throughout the series (pre-Winter mantle), Harry uses his staff one-handed resulting in significant damage to his target. A staff is a two-handed weapon. Have you ever tried to swing a six-foot length of wood "as thick as two thumbs together" with one hand? It's awkward as hell and you can't really get any real force behind it unless you have the space and momentum to twirl it.

Offline Mira

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2022, 09:44:43 PM »
Several times throughout the series (pre-Winter mantle), Harry uses his staff one-handed resulting in significant damage to his target. A staff is a two-handed weapon. Have you ever tried to swing a six-foot length of wood "as thick as two thumbs together" with one hand? It's awkward as hell and you can't really get any real force behind it unless you have the space and momentum to twirl it.

He isn't really trying to physically hit anything with it or need to.. He channels his power through the staff, that's what cracks things and explodes things, not physical force applied with it.

Offline Fcrate

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2022, 10:02:15 PM »
I recall reading in some book that he has the same runes on it as his kinetic rings. Without magic even a one handed jab with a 6 foot staff is little more than a love tap, and a poorly aimed one. A swing has more chance of hitting a target, but unless you're goading a mule you won't get any significant results.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline Mira

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 04:45:34 AM »
I recall reading in some book that he has the same runes on it as his kinetic rings. Without magic even a one handed jab with a 6 foot staff is little more than a love tap, and a poorly aimed one. A swing has more chance of hitting a target, but unless you're goading a mule you won't get any significant results.

Which is the point, Harry has magic..  He usually doesn't joust another physically with it like Little John battling Robin Hood, he doesn't need to.. A wave in the general direction, a thump on the ground a few made up Latin words and all hell breaks loose. ::)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 05:19:02 PM by Mira »

Offline Ed0517

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2022, 01:24:35 AM »
I think he has some sort of power boost to it... didn't he claim to have broken a ghoul's back in the caves outside Camp Kaboom? those things are pretty tough...

also, he must use some power to strengthen the wood....  the torque could be tremendous, especially in a longer staff. Wood isn't that strong laterally - Pete Alonso popped out today, and on the way back to the dugout broke his bat on his knee.  I don't THINK he had cracked it on the popup.

Offline Mira

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2022, 04:14:30 AM »
Quote
also, he must use some power to strengthen the wood....  the torque could be tremendous, especially in a longer staff. Wood isn't that strong laterally - Pete Alonso popped out today, and on the way back to the dugout broke his bat on his knee.  I don't THINK he had cracked it on the popup.

I think he must of cracked it on the popup.  What you need to do is go back and listen to the sound when the bat hit the ball.  I bet you can hear the crack even if the bat didn't come apart at that moment.  Notice announcers usually know the minute the bat strikes the ball if it is broken from the sound it makes.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2022, 07:57:18 AM »
The staff is a general focus,  the first wizards use, I think they subconsciously strengthen the blows from it and absorb blows on it with magic but because this is purely mental there are limits to avoid them puréing their brains.Hence Dresden built his kinetic energy punch into it  to go further safely.

Harry’s first use of magic was the win the long jump, a similar mental effort, bolstering his physical prowess.

Offline g33k

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2022, 03:43:00 AM »
I'm gonna be a bit contrarian here.

Sometimes he DOES just use it as a "big stick" to whack things, no magic included... and it is a big stick.

Two hands helps with a staff, for sure... BUT ... (and I'm just sayin, here) a "nightstick" (tonfa) is a similar-diameter stick, explicitly used 1-handed.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2022, 03:52:15 AM »
A swing has more chance of hitting a target, but unless you're goading a mule you won't get any significant results.

Yes, swinging a staff has a much better chance of scoring a hit and most of the time it won't be very damaging but I've seen a person knocked out with a blow to the neck; vagus nerve hit, and I've seen someone get their collarbone broken, both in street fights.  (In both cases, these injuries came from hand blows, so not entirely analogous, but not entirely dissimilar either.) So, a staff being swung by someone who knew where to aim wouldn't be entirely harmless.

Without magic even a one handed jab with a 6 foot staff is little more than a love tap, and a poorly aimed one.

No, you could crack a rib with a really good jab.  You wouldn't hold the staff at the very end where you would have poor control.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 06:02:47 AM by KurtinStGeorge »
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Offline Arctos

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2022, 06:19:08 AM »
It's mentioned a few times that even when he isn't actively projecting energy with the staff, the energy held at the ready makes it... metaphysically more than just a piece of wood, I guess?  It definitely came up in Dead Beat where the energy he's holding ready in the staff lets him bludgeon corpsetaker's specters with melee strikes.  In Proven Guilty he also crushes the skull of one of the fetches with the staff, and describes the blow as "powered by muscle and magic alike".

The understanding I had was that even when he's 'just' using his staff as a beatstick, it's an instrument of his Will and reinforced by his Will, and the physical strikes are empowered by that.  edit: it's also why he can regularly use it as a prybar without snapping the wood.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 06:21:07 AM by Arctos »

Offline Fcrate

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2022, 07:22:14 AM »
No, you could crack a rib with a really good jab.  You wouldn't hold the staff at the very end where you would have poor control.
Yes, if you planned on fighting one handed, and already had a decent grip on the middle and an obliging opponent who doesn't care if you hit them.
I try to make allowances for the story, action scenes don't have to be realistic. In fact, beyond a certain point, realism has a negative impact on the audience. Imagine an action scene that goes like this: Will attacked Cane with a powerful right hook, hitting him square in the jaw. Cane reeled back two steps, pulled a gun that was tucked into his pants and shot Will in the face. Pieces of Will's brain splattered over me, and by the time I overcame the shock of seeing a friend die so quickly, Cane was emptying the rest of his bullets into my chest. The end.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline Mira

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2022, 10:25:34 AM »
Yes, if you planned on fighting one handed, and already had a decent grip on the middle and an obliging opponent who doesn't care if you hit them.
I try to make allowances for the story, action scenes don't have to be realistic. In fact, beyond a certain point, realism has a negative impact on the audience. Imagine an action scene that goes like this: Will attacked Cane with a powerful right hook, hitting him square in the jaw. Cane reeled back two steps, pulled a gun that was tucked into his pants and shot Will in the face. Pieces of Will's brain splattered over me, and by the time I overcame the shock of seeing a friend die so quickly, Cane was emptying the rest of his bullets into my chest. The end.

If Harry were an ordinary guy, I would totally agree with you, but Harry is a wizard and this is a fantasy.  Hey there are no two hundred and something plus year old guys running around either, let alone one smacking people and breaking bones with their walking sticks.  This is traditional for wizards from Gandalf through Harry and beyond, remember the scene in "Two Towers"? 

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2022, 12:59:18 PM »
I'm gonna be a bit contrarian here.

Sometimes he DOES just use it as a "big stick" to whack things, no magic included... and it is a big stick.

Two hands helps with a staff, for sure... BUT ... (and I'm just sayin, here) a "nightstick" (tonfa) is a similar-diameter stick, explicitly used 1-handed.

Maybe Harry has just one hugely developed arm from solo manipulation of his staff on a repeated basis?

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2022, 04:16:54 PM »
Maybe Harry has just one hugely developed arm from solo manipulation of his staff on a repeated basis?
Hell(boy)Harry

Offline g33k

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Re: Something That Has Always Bugged Me
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2022, 06:23:03 PM »
Maybe Harry has just one hugely developed arm from solo manipulation of his staff on a repeated basis?

Must.
Not.
Make.
Deadpool.
Joke.

<fails miserably>