King Arthur's Scabbard

[whitelaughter]

From Morte d' Arthur:
Then Sir Arthur looked on the sword, and liked it passing well. Whether liketh you better, said Merlin, the sword or the scabbard? Me liketh better the sword, said Arthur. Ye are more unwise, said Merlin, for the scabbard is worth ten of the swords, for whiles ye have the scabbard upon you, ye shall never lose no blood, be ye never so sore wounded; therefore keep well the scabbard always with you.

Given that in Dresdenverse:
1) Excalibur is a Sword of the Cross, and
2) Nicodemus has a Noose with the powers of the Scabbard above, and
3) the Swords can change form -

maybe the Noose used to be the Scabbard? Certainly Nicodemus would enjoy persuading the Knights that one of their holy relics was an evil artifact. It is Arthurian canon that the scabbard is stolen by a witch.

[Regenbogen]

Nice idea, but I'm afraid, I'll have to disappoint you. The noose is supposed to be the one Judas used to hang himself with.
https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Nicodemus_Archleone%27s_noose#cite_note-WP-B-1

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The swords do no change shape either, they change form. The Sword of Faith has moved more into the spiritual and away from the physical, but it is still a Sword. Nick has also had it since the time of Christ.

The Scabbard may however have been the Shroud, the superweapons are supposed to be an order of magnitude more powerful than the Swords and were created from the nails of the Crucifixion so are related to the superweapons. I have posited in the past that the Shroud was also the Golden Fleece as both have reputed similar powers of healing, but there is no reason it could not be all three. Wearing the Shroud would be similar to the Noose it effectively heals the wearer and renders them effectively immortal from physical harm. Given what it is though it may also give protection like the Blackstaff but even more so from psychic, spiritual and mental harm. You would simply need to wrap the Shroud around the normal wooden scabbard to achieve the effect.

The Witch sounds like Mab, who is most likely the Lady of the Lake, so she would have been reclaiming it to return to Hades, with the Grail.

I am wondering whether the Placard was also in play to protect Camelot. The Placard works so long as the person keying it with their blood is alive. Having a man wearing the Shroud would certainly do that.

Arthur also had a Magical dagger Carnwennan a gift from god like Excalibur which was supposed to shroud him in shadows and was used to kill a giant. Sound familiar? The Spear may have also have been in play.

[Snark Knight]

The swords do no change shape either, they change form. The Sword of Faith has moved more into the spiritual and away from the physical, but it is still a Sword. Nick has also had it since the time of Christ.

Michael did say they had records of the other two besides Excalibur being reforged at some point in the KOTC's history, though. They may have changed shape somewhat then.

But I agree with the core point. Nic probably got his coin and the noose direct off Judas' body and has been holding it ever since.

[g33k]

... The Witch sounds like Mab, who is most likely the Lady of the Lake, so she would have been reclaiming it to return to Hades, with the Grail ...

I understand Arthur to have been before Mab's tenure.

But it was probably one of the three Queens (or rather, six -- Lady in the Lake seems very Jenny-Greenteeth, so Summerfae is at least as likely as Winterfae).

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I believe in Battle Ground Mab is referred  to as contemporary of Merlin, she may have been Winter Lady then using the name Nimue.

[Fcrate]

I hardly think that a Winter Lady would be "pimply faced" as Ethniu described her.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I hardly think that a Winter Lady would be "pimply faced" as Ethniu described her.

Mab if Arthurian would be about 1700 years old and existing solely within the causal flow of time. Ethnui like the gods, dragons and angels existed before then so has also existed the entire flow of time. Ethnui is describing Mab’s relative youth compared to the beings she counts almost or previously as peers like Odinnor Ferro. Ethnui is a gist against the young

It must therefore have especially galling to lose to the mewling babe, the newborn Starborn Harry Dresden.

[g33k]

I thought WoJ said that Mab happened about the time of William the Conqueror (so, about 1K years ago, give or take a century... but not 7 centuries!)

But maybe that happening was Mab moving up from Lady to Queen ...?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

We have no idea how long she was Lady, she may have ascended at the time of the Conqueror.

By the way there is a particular stone associated with the Conqueror, in Hastings, it is in the shape of a Stone Table. Where have we seen that before?

In 1066 The Conqueror overturning the British Monarchy was presaged by a daytime visible Halley’s Comet, often mistaken for a Star.

This may be the Stars And Stones, Mab executing her predecessor on the Stone Table at the same time Titania also became Queen when the first Mother Summer abdicated, all over lit by Halley’s Comet, causing Mab and Titania not to speak for 1,000 years. William becomes King, Mab becomes Queen.

That would suggest that the final triology volume Stars and Stones has Mab executed on the Stone Table probably by Harry, leading to Molly becoming Queen, probably during the height of the eta aquarid meteor shower, which are the remnants of Halley’s Comet apt, if Mab bites it. The Eta Aquarids are annual and peak during the first week in May. We are at December 2014 in the Dresdenverse, no really highly visible comets in the next 8 years of Harry’s timeline, and actually in 2022 Halley’s Comet is at aphelion, it’s furthest point from the sun, so my guess Mab dies in May 2022, having become Queen in 1066, having risen on the Star and fallen on the Stones. Prophecy? It would explain its use as a curse term the deaths of Queens of Faerie.

I know everyone thinks Syarrs and Stones is to do with the Black court and Drakul but the actual quote in Battle Ground Chapter 13 “This was never about raising an army, fool' Mavra hissed. 'It was about acquiring new blood for the stars and stones.” Add a comma after blood and the sentence changes completely, she is cursing, not explaining, not raising a Zombie army for the Fomor, but recruiting Black Court Wizards. Harry is good at Listening, but I doubt he can hear punctuation. This is exactly the type of sneaky trick Jim would pull, getting us all excited because Harry is literally an unreliable narrator.

I still have no idea WTF Starborn means. Unfortunately I suspect neither does Jim.

[morriswalters]

The last guy born under a star was Christ in Bethlehem. I just keep looking for the three wise men. I assume the next thing we'll find out is that Margaret had a virgin birth. /s 

I'm more than a little tired of this whole Starborn shtick.

If Mab was a halfling like Sarissa then her age is indeterminate. She could be any age subject only to the convenience of the story.

[Mira]

The last guy born under a star was Christ in Bethlehem. I just keep looking for the three wise men. I assume the next thing we'll find out is that Margaret had a virgin birth. /s 

I'm more than a little tired of this whole Starborn shtick.

If Mab was a halfling like Sarissa then her age is indeterminate. She could be any age subject only to the convenience of the story.

I agree to an extent with the star born thing, especially since we are now finding them under every other rock in the story.  So if they are really relatively common, what is so special about them and why the secrecy?

[Conspiracy Theorist]

The last guy born under a star was Christ in Bethlehem. I just keep looking for the three wise men. I assume the next thing we'll find out is that Margaret had a virgin birth. /s 

I'm more than a little tired of this whole Starborn shtick.

If Mab was a halfling like Sarissa then her age is indeterminate. She could be any age subject only to the convenience of the story.

‘halfling’ is the incorrect term for the product of the union between human an Fae, I think you mean changeling.

A halflong is a mortal human like figure with large feet, often clad in sensible shoes, as Nicodemus snidely commented upon in Skin Game.

[whitelaughter]

The swords do no change shape either, they change form.

And your distinction between shape and form is...what?
Because both a noose and a scabbard hold something still; you can form a noose in a rope belt to hold a sword.

Meanwhile, Katanas date from the 10thC, broadswords from the High Middle Ages, the cavalry sabre from the 17thC. The swords have clearly changed radically; probably starting out as Roman Gladii.
(And that's before pointing out that the swords are older than the languages they are supposedly named in).

Your other points deserve their own thread(s). Probably based on the 13 treasures of Britain.

[morriswalters]

‘halfling’ is the incorrect term for the product of the union between human an Fae, I think you mean changeling.

A halflong is a mortal human like figure with large feet, often clad in sensible shoes, as Nicodemus snidely commented upon in Skin Game.

Okay, changeling. But that escape hatch he created when he dreamed up Sarissa is so big you could drive a plot semi truck through it. It keeps you from assigning any age to Mab.

And your distinction between shape and form is...what?

This distinction isn't significant. But the swords have always been swords. A noose is not a scabbard.  However the quote adds to the argument.  I could see Butcher giving something like it to Harry in the endgame.