Author Topic: Coins and Choices  (Read 5068 times)

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3913
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2022, 04:31:30 PM »
We may have seen x-iel or at least his host, the Fallen can keep hidden especially well, Harry may have fought him and not even realised he was facing a Denarian, Cowl for example is a likely candidate, he never pressed Cowl hard enough for him to draw on Hellfire in their battles. Cowl however knew Harry possessed Bob, who had the Word, if Justin was a previous host x-iel would know this. It always bothered me that Cowl knew about Bob when only Justin, Elaine and Harry knew this, so Cowl must have found out from Elaine, unless there was another being present all the time. Everyone goes with the Elaine-Kumori theory, but if she was bound to Summer at the time of Grave Peril, it’s unlikely given how we have subsequently seen how Winter binds.


It's possible, but not the only way to explain Cowl knowing Justin had Bob and surmising Harry would have taken the skull after defeating Justin.

We have little to no indication in text how much information Justin was sharing with other Circle conspirators without Harry or Elaine's awareness. It could be something as simple as Cowl knew because he helped Justin purloin the valuable assistant spirit out of Kemmler's lab while convincing the Council it had been destroyed.  That's a particularly credible alternative if Cowl is Simon - everyone pretty much would have believed Bob was destroyed on his report as Senior Councilor and head of the brute squad.

Of course, Cowl could be both Simon AND hosting one of the Denarians everybody thought was still in a Church vault somewhere. A coin would certainly be helpful in faking one's death.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2022, 08:47:03 PM »
Hellfire would be effective in faking a death curse. Both are supercharging of spells.

For all we know Simon picked up Justin’s coin.

Or the Merlin has it hidden amongst his collection of bottlecaps......


Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2022, 10:22:55 PM »
All Cowl had to know was that Justin had Bob and that it wasn't there after the fact. Alternatively it is possible that Elaine is Kumori and she knew. You don't need a fallen to be involved at all.  It is also possible that Harry was meant to have Bob and to be his caretaker until Cowl or whoever needed him.

The coins are vaguely modeled after the One Ring and you might have to throw them in lava or something similar to destroy them.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2022, 12:08:25 PM »
No one knew Justin had Bob, he picked up Bob from the attack on Kemmler. Only Harry and Elaine knew because I doubt Justin enjoyed in person teaching unless it involved projectiles.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2022, 01:38:10 PM »
No one knew Justin had Bob, he picked up Bob from the attack on Kemmler. Only Harry and Elaine knew because I doubt Justin enjoyed in person teaching unless it involved projectiles.
That may or may not be true but it isn't in the text anywhere that I'm aware of.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2022, 04:33:48 PM »
Justin was an ex Warden and knew Bob was on the most dangerous artefacts list (below the Eye of Balor, The Spear, The Shroud, The Crown, The Placard and Excalibur) which in no way should be in the possession of an individual wizard. Ever. So he didn’t tell anyone in the White Council.

He may have told whoever he was working for but the people he was working for weren’t very nice, abducting children, so I doubt he told them about his Ace in the Hole

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24038
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2022, 04:52:29 PM »
Justin was an ex Warden and knew Bob was on the most dangerous artefacts list (below the Eye of Balor, The Spear, The Shroud, The Crown, The Placard and Excalibur) which in no way should be in the possession of an individual wizard. Ever. So he didn’t tell anyone in the White Council.

He may have told whoever he was working for but the people he was working for weren’t very nice, abducting children, so I doubt he told them about his Ace in the Hole

That does leave a bit of a plot hole, because supposedly Justin told no one he had Bob because as Luccio told Harry in Small Favor I believe, it was illegal to possess Bob and that he should be destroyed because if I remember correctly no one outside of the Host of the Archive should have access to that much information.  Harry knew about Bob and perhaps Elaine might have as well because he eavesdropped when Justin was getting information from Bob. 

Elaine could be suspect because she might be infected with Nemesis, the general theory is she carried the infection to Aurora when she fled after Justin died.  We've seen how hosts infected by Nemesis act, assuming that Cowl is playing for the same team as Nemesis, it could very well have been her that told Cowl.  Another simpler explanation is Cowl followed Harry or had Kumori follow Harry after their encounter in Dead Beat because he thought Harry had or knew the where a bouts of Kemmler's book, which he also wanted so he could do Darkhallow.  Harry took Bob with him to Murphy's house, Cowl followed, saw the skull and immediately knew what it was, and took Bob.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2980
    • View Profile
Re: Coins and Choices
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2022, 07:27:45 PM »
What’s the fun in a simple explanation?