Author Topic: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!  (Read 1492 times)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2021, 09:29:54 AM »
Probably Peabody did something similar to what Fix and Lilly did with Maeve's help. That is why he went to Chicago via the nevernever and used the same route as the rest of the senior council. So only one we know for sure who used a gate to get even near is the gatekeeper and he stayed off the island.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2021, 12:04:40 PM »
Probably Peabody did something similar to what Fix and Lilly did with Maeve's help. That is why he went to Chicago via the nevernever and used the same route as the rest of the senior council. So only one we know for sure who used a gate to get even near is the gatekeeper and he stayed off the island.

Though somebody else did and brought all those nasty spiders etc with him or her..  I pray it wasn't Rashid playing a very deep,deep, game... :o

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2021, 12:47:22 PM »
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Seconds later, another pair of humanlike presences simply appeared in the woods four hundred yards away.
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ďBut not you. You came through the Nevernever?Ē

He nodded, his eyes watching me carefully. ďI know a Way. Iíve been here before.Ē
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There was only one explanation for thatóthe new arrivals were calling forth muscle from the Nevernever. I was betting that the pair on the beach was Madeline and Binder, and that he had begun calling out his grey men the moment his feet hit the ground.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2021, 02:59:04 PM »
As much as I want him to have a door like the one in Cold Days, I don't think he'll have one anytime soon for a few reasons, some Watsonian, some Doylist.
  • D: It's too easy. Too convenient.
  • W: Even if it's just basement to outhouse, it's still a huge security risk.
  • D: Butcher bothered to give Harry a ruby of ways, and figuring out ways, and has hardly used it.
  • W: I agree that the power requirement is beyond Harry's ability to sustain a direct link.

I figure he'll use his mom's ruby in Twelve Months to find a Way to the island that's only a few hops. But I could see a door being made later in the series that's sponsored by Alfred and has prison-and-Gate style wards on it to keep baddies out.

I mean come on, I could totally see some sidhe finding a missing pantry door at the outer gates, and another just shrugging and saying, "Dresden".

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #79 on: November 25, 2021, 03:53:47 PM »
The point is that the island is available to anyone with a boat, plane, jet ski or two sharks. And once there you can call in the troops. As evidenced by both Turn Coat and Cold Days.  So risk to the prison isn't the issue. Butcher has done some nice set pieces on the boat. And it has always served the story well.

But he's off the rails with it now, which I know is a minority position, since it allows the silly horseshit that Harry does in Peace Talks. The bad guys show up, kill the retainers, kick the door down and slag Mab.  After all that, Harry calmly goes to the dock, fights Eb, takes a boat ride, plays tag with Lara and generally speaking wastes time.

I point out that when push came to shove that Demonreach came to Chicago to get the Titan while Harry had to take Thomas to the prison, which in my book screams massive inconsistency. Or did I miss something?  Anyway I'll shut up about it and take a break for a while.


Offline Arjan

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #80 on: November 25, 2021, 05:18:08 PM »
Binder can call his people when on the island. That does not mean he came there via the never ever. Binder had a wetsuit, he probably used jet skis or something like that.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #81 on: November 25, 2021, 05:56:48 PM »
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The point is that the island is available to anyone with a boat, plane, jet ski or two sharks. And once there you can call in the troops. As evidenced by both Turn Coat and Cold Days.  So risk to the prison isn't the issue. Butcher has done some nice set pieces on the boat. And it has always served the story well.

Both Turn Coat and Cold Days took place before Harry fully took up his Warden duties.  Between Cold Days and Skin Game he fully engaged Demonreach's defenses and he and Alfred are on the same page now, as we saw in both Peace Talks and Battle Ground, not so easy to get on the island these days if Harry doesn't want you on the island.
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But he's off the rails with it now, which I know is a minority position, since it allows the silly horseshit that Harry does in Peace Talks. The bad guys show up, kill the retainers, kick the door down and slag Mab.  After all that, Harry calmly goes to the dock, fights Eb, takes a boat ride, plays tag with Lara and generally speaking wastes time.
Not sure what you mean here.  Yes, Harry took Thomas to the island and put him in a cell.  Lara and her Valkyrie tried to attack and they didn't get anywhere because Harry didn't want them to, not just his power, but as Warden, the power of the island.  Now if Justine/HWWB had managed to totally fool Harry and got inside the defenses, it would have been a different story.  But he wasn't fooled, Lara's men got on the island because Alfred let them to save Harry, but the Valkyrie was thrown sever hundred feet when she tried again to step on the island.  If Harry doesn't want Eb on the island, he isn't getting on, no need to fight.
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I point out that when push came to shove that Demonreach came to Chicago to get the Titan while Harry had to take Thomas to the prison, which in my book screams massive inconsistency. Or did I miss something?  Anyway I'll shut up about it and take a break for a while.
Yes, you did miss a bit..  Harry did have to take Thomas to the island by boat.  Then he bound him and Alfred put him in a cell.  Harry knowing there was no way he was going to bring the Titian to the island or that it was unlikely, asked Alfred what his range was?  The reply was with the power boost I believe of the Spear, the lake shore of Chicago was about it.  That is why Harry with Marcone's help had to lure the Titian to the shore once they got the Eye away from her.  However Harry still had to bind her and call up Alfred to take her just like he did Thomas.  Only difference was the distance from which it was done.

Offline vincentric

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #82 on: November 25, 2021, 06:03:18 PM »
The point is that the island is available to anyone with a boat, plane, jet ski or two sharks. And once there you can call in the troops. As evidenced by both Turn Coat and Cold Days.  So risk to the prison isn't the issue. Butcher has done some nice set pieces on the boat. And it has always served the story well.

But he's off the rails with it now, which I know is a minority position, since it allows the silly horseshit that Harry does in Peace Talks. The bad guys show up, kill the retainers, kick the door down and slag Mab.  After all that, Harry calmly goes to the dock, fights Eb, takes a boat ride, plays tag with Lara and generally speaking wastes time.

I point out that when push came to shove that Demonreach came to Chicago to get the Titan while Harry had to take Thomas to the prison, which in my book screams massive inconsistency. Or did I miss something?  Anyway I'll shut up about it and take a break for a while.

Harry didn't have a binding crystal on him when the Thomas rescue plan went down. He took one with him to the Ethniu fight. Perhaps he should start carrying one or two with him... nah, that would be smart, can't have that until the book's climatic finale.

Offline Conspiracy Theorist

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Re: Harry creates a portal to Demonreach!
« Reply #83 on: November 25, 2021, 08:12:30 PM »
Binder can call his people when on the island. That does not mean he came there via the never ever. Binder had a wetsuit, he probably used jet skis or something like that.

Binder is a summoner, it requires him to physically get to the place and lay a circle. There is a bloody huge summoning circle on Demonreach which Harry could use to bring bad guys to the island.

This does make me think this would be limited to those in the Never Never, a threat in the mortal world like the Titan couldnít be summoned in this fashion which would explain the need to get her to the lakeside. She had been hiding out in the mortal world.Remember Bob hid in the mortal world to avoid Mab, if he was in the Never Never could he just have been summoned?

This would suggest summoning creates a temporary congruency between the mortal world and the part of the Never Never where the target is causing an overlap within the circle. Breaking the circle releases them into the mortal world. If done successfully with enough will the target has no choice. If the target is in the mortal world (like Toot) they have a choice, but in Toots case greed overcame his caution.

The Majority of the inmates were likely summoned from the NeverNever to the summoning circle at Demonreach and bound by the Warden and Alfred. This explains why the bad guys donít know about Demonreach.  Harry of course did it the hard way, using Bob on the lake shore. If so it would be unusual for Harry to have a summoning Crystal off the island, itís use is very limited. Of his opponents only really Puck and Shagnasty really qualify, Cowl if he had succeeded in the Darkhallow and Harry would have to lure them to the lakeshore.

Harry should really try to use the summoning circle to take down Puck, he knows enough about him to summon the Wildfae, and it would be a good test, as well as removing a threat to the future of Chicago.(Puck is from the comics which are cannon, I think Harry beat him with sleight of hand learnt from his dad rather than pure chance, Puck was looking for a Wizard to cheat with magic).

Creating a portal is just punching through to the NeverNever and the congruency isnít created, it already exists, but may not be the one you desire that is why you need to use the ways to get from point A to point B.