Author Topic: Battle Ground end scenes  (Read 783 times)

Offline LostInTime

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Battle Ground end scenes
« on: September 15, 2021, 05:18:43 AM »
Man, listening to the audio book of Battle Ground and different stuff is sticking out that I just zoomed past while reading.
Here's another. It really stuck out at me in the audio book, but I zoomed past it reading.

Quote
“We have to answer for this,” I said quietly. “We have to help. The wounded.” I didn’t look back at the dark opening in the base of the Bean. “The dead. We owe them. You know I’m right.”
“That could be a tough sell,” she said in quiet answer.
“I’m not asking,” I said. “My fealty is a two-way street. I have gone above and beyond my duty to Winter, right in front of God and everybody, by doing what no one else could. Now Winter will respond in kind, by helping as no one else can. You will help them. Every one of them. Do it in secret, no connections. We’ve interfered in their lives enough. This will happen.”
The Winter Lady gave me a very long, very intent stare.
And then she shivered and bowed her head.
“Already you have bound a Titan. And now a Queen. Sometimes,” Molly whispered, “I’m very proud to be your friend, Harry. And sometimes you frighten me.”
Sometimes I frightened the Winter Lady. I shook my head.

The fae CAN'T leave a debt unsettled. Just like Mab had to repay Waldo for removing the rebar from her neck, even if it is held against her as a favor, the debt has to be acknowledged and balanced.

When Harry said he went above and beyond his duties as the Winter Knight, he wasn't exaggerating. Harry Dresden couldn't bind a titan. The Winter Knight couldn't bind a titan. The Warden of Demonreach can and did.

Winter has no hold on the Warden of Demonreach.

Winter owes the Warden for binding Ethniu, in support of the accords, and Harry collected. Molly has no choice in paying for the injured and the dead. Just as she has no choice in collecting on the favor Harry owes her for making the glamour he used to evade Eb.

Which puts a different spin on Molly presenting the envelope to Harry on Christmas Eve at the Carpenters. She's not giving a gift, she's settling a debt. Which clearly underlines Harry as an unreliable narrator.

Which, in turn, expands on the unease Molly felt when she left the house in The Good People. She isn't human any longer, and she thinks Harry knows it. She thinks Harry is the same as she is because he so casually bound her with fae logic and Winter's debt to the Warden of Demonreach.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 10:30:00 AM »
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Which, in turn, expands on the unease Molly felt when she left the house in The Good People. She isn't human any longer, and she thinks Harry knows it. She thinks Harry is the same as she is because he so casually bound her with fae logic and Winter's debt to the Warden of Demonreach.

I think you are right about her presenting Harry with the account on Christmas Eve of a debt paid.
However I am not sure that she believes that Harry is the same as she is, have to reread the end of Good People again.  I think it goes deeper with Molly, the roots are back in Proven Guilty, even in Turn Coat, I think that she had never fully redeemed herself if that is the word for it from being a warlock.  For her it was too easy to slip back, I think that is what got Mab's attention to prepare her to become one of the Ladies, she saw a lot of herself in Molly.

Offline seanham

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 04:26:49 PM »
When Harry said he went above and beyond his duties as the Winter Knight, he wasn't exaggerating. Harry Dresden couldn't bind a titan. The Winter Knight couldn't bind a titan. The Warden of Demonreach can and did.

Winter has no hold on the Warden of Demonreach.

Great call out. This reminds me of what Odin said in Cold Days.

Offline Con

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 06:42:54 PM »
There's also Harry's assistance with the Little Folk he offered it off his own back and several heavyweights were impressed by it.

River Shoulder's likely wouldn't have involved himself without Harry.

Butters wouldn't be a Knight without him as well. Under Fae law he could be considered in Harry's entourage. Maybe Santa or atleast a positive relationship with The White Gods forces. Harry suggested the cathedral and michaels house as fall back positions.

By extension Molly's training and preparedness particularly compared to Maeve was a causality of Harry.

Harry made Marcone baron and inadvertently fostered a relationship with the White Court.

Sacrificed his position with the White Council in service of Winter.

All of these factors are in some way because of Harry's actions Winter would have been weakened without them against a formidable enemy.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2021, 07:49:59 PM »
Harry is often times very lucky.  Kind of like his deal with Lara gave him protection even though he hadn't thought about it that way.  It still worked out in his favor.  Over time, however, Harry is getting more skilled in his decision making.  Is this him growing up, or is it part of the Winter Mantle, and Sidhe rubbing off on him?
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2021, 09:51:48 PM »
Over time, however, Harry is getting more skilled in his decision making.  Is this him growing up, or is it part of the Winter Mantle, and Sidhe rubbing off on him?

Or Id Harry? He's not just basic feed/fight/f*** instincts. The calculation that picking up the coin kept Lasciel out of hostile hands who might use him against them was similarly astute.

Offline Mira

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2021, 02:24:05 PM »
Harry is often times very lucky.  Kind of like his deal with Lara gave him protection even though he hadn't thought about it that way.  It still worked out in his favor.  Over time, however, Harry is getting more skilled in his decision making.  Is this him growing up, or is it part of the Winter Mantle, and Sidhe rubbing off on him?

I think the Winter Mantle has forced him to grow up in many ways, because the mantle magnifies ten fold or more any impulse he might have.  Primary example of this, pre-mantle, basically shy Harry around women might think this one or that one was a "hot" idem, keeping those perfectly natural male impulses to himself.  Post-mantle, he'd want to rape her, and go for it, he had to learn to control himself pretty quickly.. Self control is a big part of maturity.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2021, 04:11:38 AM »
Just as she has no choice in collecting on the favor Harry owes her for making the glamour he used to evade Eb.
What annoys me about that is that Harry agrees to go with Molly to her parents house in the same conversation as he incurs a debt to her. He could have just repaid the debt by going with her.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2021, 05:44:45 PM »
It annoyed me too. If anyone could come up with a good explanationI it would be nice.

Offline Mira

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2021, 06:25:43 PM »
What annoys me about that is that Harry agrees to go with Molly to her parents house in the same conversation as he incurs a debt to her. He could have just repaid the debt by going with her.

Harry was already in debt to her, when she made that ring for him so he could fool Eb.  She did repay the debt, when she paid the bills of everyone that were hurt or killed during the battle. Molly is still Harry's friend, so is Michael, Harry was doing something you'd do for a friend, not really formal debt payment material I think.  Not everything is a matter of debt and payment.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2021, 06:39:12 PM »
So staying true to their human friendship /not contaminating it was more important than using it as a loophole for fairy business. That works for me, thanks Mira :-)

Offline Mira

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Re: Battle Ground end scenes
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2021, 08:48:58 PM »
So staying true to their human friendship /not contaminating it was more important than using it as a loophole for fairy business. That works for me, thanks Mira :-)

You're welcome! ;)