Author Topic: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?  (Read 329 times)

Offline groinkick

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Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« on: September 15, 2021, 03:29:52 AM »
Up to this point Harry's main threat has come from non wizards.  Werewolves, vampires, demons, mortals, Fae ect.  Sure he's had his run in with some magic wielders, but the main threats have come from outside the White Council.  He hasn't considered the White Council as a real enemy in the way that he should truly develop magic specifically for combating mortal wizards.

Things have changed though in a big way.  First, Marcone is now on the level of a skilled wizard, possibly Senior Council level.  Second, Harry now must consider Carlos a threat, and has admitted to himself that Carlos is more skilled than he is.  The big third is that the White Council has cast him out, and is willing to send his own grandfather after him.

Harry loves Eb but I think at this point he can't be certain if Eb would really come after him.  Because he loves his daughters so much, he won't roll over for Eb.  If Harry had no children I really think he'd simply get on his knee's and tell Eb to kill him if he thought he deserved it.  He would rather do that then kill his own grandfather.  But that's not the case now, he will kill Eb if he has to.  He also has to know that the Council could send wardens after him.

Up to this point he hasn't had to think in these terms.  He does now, he has to think of Marcone, Carlos, Eb, and the entire Council as a possible threat to him.  For the first time in his life he has to really see other wizard kind as genuine enemies.  I think he's going to adjust some of his abilities specifically for taking on mortal wizards.  What say you?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 03:32:04 AM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2021, 04:22:13 AM »
I'm not sure if Harry would do a whole lot to change his strategies to fight wizards specifically at this point.  Wizards are weakest when you're going in the physical direction, which the winter knight's mantle has covered in spades.  A knock down drag out fight like that also gives Harry the advantage that WC wizards (with the exception of Eb) can't throw lethal spells at Harry.

But really, wizards are strongest when they have time to prepare and hit you from miles away.  There's not much that Harry can do to prevent that that he isn't already doing (e.g. policing thaumaturgical connections).  If a skilled wizard has that, there isn't much of a defense to mount.  Wizards don't fight fair.

In the end, Harry's best bet is to rely on his reputation as a monster with rules.  He keeps from doing something that the WC can't ignore, he'll be fine against fighting wizards.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Mira

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2021, 04:57:55 AM »
Quote

Up to this point he hasn't had to think in these terms.  He does now, he has to think of Marcone, Carlos, Eb, and the entire Council as a possible threat to him.  For the first time in his life he has to really see other wizard kind as genuine enemies.  I think he's going to adjust some of his abilities specifically for taking on mortal wizards.  What say you?

Well, not exactly for the first time, remember the first man he ever killed with magic was Justin who was a pretty powerful wizard turned warlock, in a duel.  Then he had gone up against Cowl, who is or was a wizard at some point. 

Offline LostInTime

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2021, 05:30:35 AM »
First things first, Harry needs to go back to school. He needs to upgrade his finesse when using magic. He is far too reliant on his sheer power and not on his magical technique. He lost his shield bracelet at the end of Battle Ground, it's time for him to dispense using trinkets as focuses and just do it.
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Offline Mira

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2021, 10:31:17 AM »
First things first, Harry needs to go back to school. He needs to upgrade his finesse when using magic. He is far too reliant on his sheer power and not on his magical technique. He lost his shield bracelet at the end of Battle Ground, it's time for him to dispense using trinkets as focuses and just do it.

He has been working on that ever since he took Molly as an apprentice and has improved as Eb predicted he would.

Offline forumghost

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 12:59:11 AM »
Harry hasn't bothered to learn anything new or grow since pre-Changes, so no, I don't see his starting now.

If anything, he'll start leaning into being a thug even more, since everyone out-skills him so much that he can't hope to catch up, so better keep developing his Thews instead.

The man is the living embodiment of "Fight Harder, not Smarter"

Offline Mira

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 05:43:01 AM »
Harry hasn't bothered to learn anything new or grow since pre-Changes, so no, I don't see his starting now.

If anything, he'll start leaning into being a thug even more, since everyone out-skills him so much that he can't hope to catch up, so better keep developing his Thews instead.

The man is the living embodiment of "Fight Harder, not Smarter"

He has worked quite a bit of ice magic.. It did take some smarts to defeat Ethniu, he used his smarts to get around Eb, he used his smarts to get his lab back and that castle from Marcone.  Make no mistake there is a lot of brute force when it comes to Harry's power, but never underestimate his intelligence.


Offline Avernite

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 05:43:39 PM »
Harry hasn't bothered to learn anything new or grow since pre-Changes, so no, I don't see his starting now.

If anything, he'll start leaning into being a thug even more, since everyone out-skills him so much that he can't hope to catch up, so better keep developing his Thews instead.

The man is the living embodiment of "Fight Harder, not Smarter"

Cold Days spells out his training - Mab forced him to train magic-without-props, mind-only. If that isn't a skill about fighting smarter...

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 06:40:47 PM »
Mab's pointed out the way Harry needs to progress in Cold Days when she says to him.  "Improve your mind."  This is used in Skin Game. Read Chapter 44 and consider Harry's past.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 07:42:04 PM »
Mab's pointed out the way Harry needs to progress in Cold Days when she says to him.  "Improve your mind."  This is used in Skin Game. Read Chapter 44 and consider Harry's past.

Great point.  He outsmarted Lasciel, and used defensive magic to take her down.  Not brute force.  As Jim said "He's matured".  This is exactly what I'm talking about.  He used to rely on pure brute force, and because he's so strong it could get him out of a tough jam.  With who he's facing now, he needs to be smart, and efficient. 

I'm hoping that maybe we see Harry working some earth magic.  He's done some pretty cool stuff with it in the past.  Also he mentioned how Morgan could horribly hurt you with it, as to not violate the laws of magic.  So in a duel with Carlos I could see the ground sucking in, and twisting, and snapping his already injured leg. 
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 09:02:24 PM »
I found it interesting that his request to Molly for the illusory doppelganger focus was that he didn't have the time to make it himself, not that it was outright beyond him. Seems like he's been leveling up in illusion without an opportunity to show that on page, if he wasn't overstating.

I'm hoping that maybe we see Harry working some earth magic.  He's done some pretty cool stuff with it in the past.  Also he mentioned how Morgan could horribly hurt you with it, as to not violate the laws of magic.  So in a duel with Carlos I could see the ground sucking in, and twisting, and snapping his already injured leg. 

Carlos' shield technique is energy-efficient, but he hasn't had a harsh lesson like Harry's experience with the flamethrower in what it won't block. Water / entropy shielding is great for projectiles, probably great for fire, but what's it going to do against force, electricity or cold? Granted force or cold are probably pretty predictable options Harry should stay away from if he needs to disable Carlos without killing him

The spell behind the taser chain he used on Tessa in SmF would be a good combination of nonlethal, less crippling than earth, shield-penetrating and exotic enough to be a surprise. Probably a good idea to train up on doing that without a focus.

Offline forumghost

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #11 on: Today at 12:58:56 AM »
I found it interesting that his request to Molly for the illusory doppelganger focus was that he didn't have the time to make it himself, not that it was outright beyond him. Seems like he's been leveling up in illusion without an opportunity to show that on page, if he wasn't overstating.

I think it's more like the parts of Magic where Harry is actually talented is in crafting stuff, rathen then his skill at illusions growing- Little Chicago was impressive by Bob's standards after all, and his potions have always been stupid OP, which is why Jim wrote them out of the series.

The problem is he stopped developing that natural affinity because 'hur-dur reul Wizzard dun use silly toyzzz' So Harry is basically Molly if she decided to focus on Evocation instead of illusions.

Because like I said, he's an idiot.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #12 on: Today at 02:28:25 AM »
If you like gadgets Jim is getting you ready for LC2. Without all the tedious bits.
Quote
And it was moving. Even as I watched, several tiny blue blocks marked with an X glided slowly down streets marked on the map. They stood out against the old-timey artistry as sharply as if they’d been some kind of video game. “A tactical map,” I noted. “Of my town.” Vadderung glanced up at me with his one eye and then back down. “What of it?” “Takes a lot of effort to make a construct like this,” I said. “And a lot of being in the place you’re making the map of.” “I’ve had more time than most to be more places than most,” he said.

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (pp. 54-55). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Offline Mira

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Re: Will Harry change his approach to magic now?
« Reply #13 on: Today at 02:18:54 PM »
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I think it's more like the parts of Magic where Harry is actually talented is in crafting stuff, rathen then his skill at illusions growing- Little Chicago was impressive by Bob's standards after all, and his potions have always been stupid OP, which is why Jim wrote them out of the series.

Since Harry has his lab back now, I assume potions are also back.  They are not stupid, chemistry is one of the primary areas of study of wizards historically, let's not forget it was a potion that allowed Harry and company to sneak in and spring Thomas.

Crafting stuff is another talent that shouldn't be pooh, poohed..  Wizards also need their "gadgets," you might consider a staff a gadget that all wizards seem to carry... Rashid gave up his eye for a very important gadget... Not sure about the eye, but someone had to craft the staffs that they carry, how well it is done is very important.

Quote
The problem is he stopped developing that natural affinity because 'hur-dur reul Wizzard dun use silly toyzzz' So Harry is basically Molly if she decided to focus on Evocation instead of illusions.

Because like I said, he's an idiot.

Really, well, Harry did use a very serious toy in Battle Ground, the Spear, the thing is he knew enough to keep it under wraps until he needed to use it, not the actions of an idiot...  He matched his will against a Titan, no toys there, just his will.  If Harry was an idiot, he never would have gained access to those very important and powerful toys he found in the vault of Hades back in Skin Game.