Could Dresden have been wrong about Thorned?

[The_Sibelis]

With the attack on Arctis Tor, Little Chicago, and the Corner Hounds I'm wondering if there is going to be a time travel book where Harry is going to many different points in history, chasing someone else who's trying to mess things up.

Plot twist:  There was Hellfire, but the one who nuked Mab's army was Dresden using Soulfire.

very similar to my idea, except I'd still think it's hellfire. Have you.. looked at the MCU multiversal set up? The branches and the different limbs and all that. That's exactly how I'd been trying to describe how I think harry getting home from MM would be, he has to jump through the different smaller timeline to get to bigger branches that get him closer to his core reality, except he has to make sure events match at each point enough to be similar to his next jump. Which would bring us back to the reality we know, and explain why it's so fractured and details misaligned. Because he gets to a very similar timeline, but in the closed loop aspect of it, it's not quite the same. I theorize alot of the sudden changes or "errors", past events no longer referenced, ect.(direct, on screen changes, like the car in DB outside of Bocks, are actively happening which is why the splice is there)Are the results of Harry changing what happened to suite him. Saving Thomas from shagnasty perhaps..?

(click to show/hide)

a long time ago Jim was asked about shagnasty and his response was something to do with how powerful a being who would consider a Nag a foot soldier should give some indicator of who summoned sent him or some such... We now know Harry is fully capable of releasing them, and what more, iirc Harry's was the only empty spot in the room of six, shoulda been a full magical number seven though no? One was missing. I think when time looped back around and Harry saw the damage he did to Thomas he forbade him from doing such the next time he experienced the event of going back and, as Warden, releasing Shagnasty.

just an idea. But I try to see what point any TT would have, what's the causality of it. Arctis Tor would seem to have got Mabs attention on molly perhaps, and certainly left the bastion clear when Harry came calling. The why of it is less clear, I'm wondering if he didn't assault the fortress not as an enemy outright but an unwelcome ally. Causing a direct confrontation with Mab before leaving in truce, or in chase of Nemesis escaping?  Prevent Mabs infection, but indirectly cause Maeves?
I remember people here talking about the way things just seem to warp off center in the double books, Carlos' fist bump somehow marking Dresden and such, I theorize, much like the Doppler effect of the time travel attack on DR, the closer you get to the event horizon the bigger the waves. Thinking of other similarities in stories like a sound of thunder.

[Second Aristh]

I'm thinking if that is what it comes down to in the end, it is a real cop out in terms of story telling..
Oh yeah, Harry or someone traveled back in time and altered all of that stuff... That for me at any rate would be a huge disappointment.

Not altered it, but worked in the background to make sure someone else didn't make it worse.  Altering breaks the law of conservation of history Odin talks about.  It's too hard to do, especially that far back.  More like Prisoner of Azkaban style where Harry's maintaining his timeline.

[BrainFireBob]

I'm thinking if that is what it comes down to in the end, it is a real cop out in terms of story telling..
Oh yeah, Harry or someone traveled back in time and altered all of that stuff... That for me at any rate would be a huge disappointment.

If Butcher does it, I would guess he'd base it on Wolfe's Solar Cycle.

(click to show/hide)

Severian becomes the avatar of the Sun, and rejuvenates it and the earth. This lead to time-manipulating groups- some for him, some against him- to go back in time to meddle with his timeline. Since it functionally is a character test to become the New Sun, it's about ensuring that he has sufficiently comparable experiences to become the New Sun- and he realizes it himself, and that he himself had been one of those time travelers.

He grew up on the edge of a cemetery, and particularly favored playing in a particular crypt that appealed to him- as an orphan, the bust over the door looked like someone he could be related to. At the end of his first manuscript, he notes that he is on his way to his grave, where he played as a boy.

Butcher doing something similar would be fine by me- Harry hurtling around making sure his life is "close enough for government work".

[morriswalters]

But I try to see what point any TT would have, what's the causality of it. Arctis Tor would seem to have got Mabs attention on molly perhaps, and certainly left the bastion clear when Harry came calling. The why of it is less clear, I'm wondering if he didn't assault the fortress not as an enemy outright but an unwelcome ally. Causing a direct confrontation with Mab before leaving in truce, or in chase of Nemesis escaping?  Prevent Mabs infection, but indirectly cause Maeves?

The first attack on Arctis Tor had nothing to do with Molly. It wasn't a rescue and it was never meant to overthrow Mab. The reason there is so little resistance when Harry goes in was because he was meant to see what had happened. It is meant to answer Eb's question, why didn't Mab kick some Red Vampire ass?

Why did Mab have Molly brought to Arctis Tor? Hint.  It wasn't to provide takeout for the Scarecrow.  Everything that happened up to that point in time was to give Harry the time to connect the dots.  He had to discover that Molly had used Black Magic.  This was the whole point of Rashid's letter.

Molly is merely a stalking horse. She is being used to conceal an attack on Harry.   And the phages are the key.

The phages. The answer was in the phages.

The phages are the pointer to Molly's psychic attack. Bob hits Harry over the head with a cluebat to indicate that the are two people calling the phages.

“Okay. Assuming that, the next variable is finding out whether they’re being summoned or sent.”

I frowned. “There are things strong enough to send them through from the other side? I didn’t think that ever happened anymore. Hence the popularity of working through mortal summoners.”

“Oh, it’s doable,” Bob assured me. “It just takes a hell of a lot more juice to open the way to the mortal world from the other side.”

I frowned. “How much power are we talking?”

“Big,” Bob assured me. “Like the Erlking, or an archangel, or one of the old gods.”

I got a shivery feeling in my stomach. “A Faerie Queen?”

“Oh, sure. I guess so.” He frowned. “You think this is Faerie work?”

Here Bob is the distraction supplied by Jim. Both things he says are true. They are not mutually exclusive. Since Bob uses Queens you can take it to mean Maeve and Mab.  Jim wants to make sure you don't miss that it is a distraction, so he tells you.

“These phage attacks look fairly simple at first glance. Like… I don’t know. Shark attacks. Something hungry shows up to eat someone and then leaves. Natural occurrences. Or rather, typical supernatural occurrences.”

“But they aren’t random,” Murphy said. “Someone is sending them to a specific place. Someone who used magic to try to stop you when you interfered with one of the phages.”

“Which begs the obvious question…” I began.

Murphy nodded and finished the thought. “Why do it in the first place?”

I stuck my left hand out to one side of me and said, “Look over here.” Then I mimed a short jab with my right fist.

“It’s a rope-a-dope,” Murphy said, her eyes narrowing. “A distraction. But from what?”

“Something worse than homicidal, shapeshifting, supernatural predators, apparently,” I mused. “Something we’d want to stop a lot more.”

Now cascade down the logic trail like Harry.  Mab sends the phages to attack Pell.  Rashid sends the letter. Maeve summons the phages to the screening room.  One of them sends Scarecrow to the garage.  Meave summons the Phages to Splattercon.  The last attack was the only planned attack.  Madrigal was a sacrificial goat to cause the White Council to be called in.

[The_Sibelis]

The first attack on Arctis Tor had nothing to do with Molly. It wasn't a rescue and it was never meant to overthrow Mab. The reason there is so little resistance when Harry goes in was because he was meant to see what had happened. It is meant to answer Eb's question, why didn't Mab kick some Red Vampire ass?

that's entirety you perspective on it. Something was the catalyst for the fetches, it didn't just happen. And as far as I know, this only hints at the answer, it does not tell it. Hence, why we still don't have that answer really?
Although I'm aware of the theory that your talking about is based on, I have no idea why you've come to these particular conclusions, but none of which are my own.
The cluebat has nothing to do with two people summoning phages imo. It's the fact that the beacon and the summoner are not necessarily the same thing, and basically explain the concept of how Nemesis vectors. Fyi, what Harry guesses during an investigation is rarely spot on when he's just constructing things like the rope a dope theory,(he doesn't have all the angles, know all the players, ect. He just doesn't have enough to get the real answer on his own) it never comes to fruitation that he was being distracted from anything else. It's more Meta, the supernatural creatures are OUR distraction from what going on.. And, on top of all that, if only the last attack is planned then it still doesn't address, WHY Molly?
Now, I'm wizarding here to wonder what effect attacking arctis Tor actually had on the timeline if it was a TT event. Why attack, to what end, and what changes it made.
Shorter..
1 doesn't explain why arctis Tor was attacked which is my focus
2 doesn't explain, why anyone targeted molly from any angle
3 why, or HOW mab would send the phages after Pell, she wouldn't, in fact, she specifically couldn't. Replace Pell with Molly, same issue.
4 Madrigal, being a sacrificial goat to bring in WC? Why would that bring in the council? It was to give them a, preferably dead, patsy for the crimes

[morriswalters]

that's entirety you perspective on it.

Yes, who others could it be?

Something was the catalyst for the fetches, it didn't just happen. And as far as I know, this only hints at the answer, it does not tell it. Hence, why we still don't have that answer really?

The answer will never be enunciated in explicit terms. The attack as plotted by me would have consisted of one attack.  The final one at Splattercon. The only purpose of that attack was to draw in Harry to kill Madrigal.

Although I'm aware of the theory that your talking about is based on, I have no idea why you've come to these particular conclusions, but none of which are my own.
The cluebat has nothing to do with two people summoning phages imo. It's the fact that the beacon and the summoner are not necessarily the same thing, and basically explain the concept of how Nemesis vectors. Fyi, what Harry guesses during an investigation is rarely spot on when he's just constructing things like the rope a dope theory,(he doesn't have all the angles, know all the players, ect. He just doesn't have enough to get the real answer on his own) it never comes to fruitation that he was being distracted from anything else. It's more Meta, the supernatural creatures are OUR distraction from what going on. And, on top of all that, if only the last attack is planned then it still doesn't address, WHY Molly?

Surely you jest. The Damsel in distress? Jim favorite plot device. First Jim sets the emotional hook.  The first trial. How sickened and unfair Harry feels it is. Enter Madrigal Raith White Court Vampire.  Harry reads Madrigal as the culprit and kills him. Which came close to happening  The White Council comes to town finds Molly and kills her.  Harry dies trying to stop it.

Now, I'm wizarding here to wonder what effect attacking arctis Tor actually had on the timeline if it was a TT event. Why attack, to what end, and what changes it made.
Shorter..
1 doesn't explain why arctis Tor was attacked which is my focus
2 doesn't explain, why anyone targeted molly from any angle
3 why, or HOW mab would send the phages after Pell, she wouldn't, in fact, she specifically couldn't. Replace Pell with Molly, same issue.
4 Madrigal, being a sacrificial goat to bring in WC? Why would that bring in the council? It was to give them a, preferably dead, patsy for the crimes

Arctis Tor was attacked to keep Mab from interfering in the Reds attack on the Council. With an added note.  She knows that Lily and Maeve are close. So is Summer may be involved.  All else follows.

Molly was targeted because she was in the Juvenile Justice System. Which in Chicago is corrupted by one or the other factions.  This was how Harry was disappeared as a child. And she was close to a Knight and Harry. An additional note if the White Court was involved it would explained how she was trapped. Perhaps by Madeline?

Mab can attack anyone as long as she doesn't do it herself.  This should be obvious after Small Favor where she sends the Hobs into a train station full of people to kill the Archive. And the fact of Mab and Maeve are tap dancing around each other is supported in the denouement.

I shook my head. “I think Lily got suckered just as much as we did.”

He frowned and rubbed at his head with one palm. “How so?”

“That’s the part I can’t figure,” I said. “I think someone set Molly up to be a beacon for the fetches. And I’m damned sure that it was no accident that those fetches took Molly to Arctis Tor when it was so lightly defended. Someone wanted me there at Arctis Tor.”

Ebenezar pursed his lips. “Who?”

“I think we got used by one of the Queens to one-up one of the others, somehow. But damned if I can figure out how.”

In as much as anything Jim does is straightforward the why of it all is also in there.

He glanced back at his house and said, “Have you ever considered the possibility that the Lord did not send me out on my most recent mission so that I could protect my daughter? That it was not His intention to use you to protect her?”

“What’s your point?”

“Only that it is entirely possible, Harry Dresden, that this entire affair, beginning to end, is meant to protect you. That when I went to the aid of Luccio and her trainees, I did so not to free Molly, but to prevent you from coming to blows with the Council. That her position as your new apprentice had less to do with protecting her than it did protecting you?”

I suggested Uriel was moving in the background. The books are written out of order.  But as is, that puts the attack on Arctis Tor after Harry speaks to Mab in Dead Beat.  And her retaliation has to be withheld.

One final note about TT.  Did Jim think it would be cute to have Harry or someone save him from his toy.  Why did Lash stay silent during the first attempt but balk at the second. All the questions become moot if you speculate that Lash caused the flaw and that she used Harry to cause Bob to not see it.  Even if none of the rest of the plan worked Harry was slated to die when he tried to use it.

[The_Sibelis]

Yes, who others could it be?

let me be more direct, I see nothing in your perspective except ideas based on conjecture, and showing why Mab didn't react is only the doyalist answer, it isn't an in story answer for why it happened, the perspective I'm looking for.

The answer will never be enunciated in explicit terms. The attack as plotted by me would have consisted of one attack.  The final one at Splattercon. The only purpose of that attack was to draw in Harry to kill Madrigal.

Nay, tis you who must be in jest? They set up an elaborate series of attacks, lining up a patsy with the same attributes as the killers, to point Harry at said patsy for his murder, only to have the real murderer show himself and fail to kill Madrigal while also clearly showing his innocence? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Coulda just sent the fetches to kill him to start. The only real explanation is it's a big soap opera set up for $hit$ and giggles then..

Surely you jest. The Damsel in distress? Jim favorite plot device. First Jim sets the emotional hook.  The first trial. How sickened and unfair Harry feels it is. Enter Madrigal Raith White Court Vampire.  Harry reads Madrigal as the culprit and kills him. Which came close to happening  The White Council comes to town finds Molly and kills her.  Harry dies trying to stop it.

surely, you don't think all the foreshadowing and future usage of Molly was all thrown out the window for PG to peg her as a mere damsel in distress? Harry doesn't get warned of black magic, doesn't look deeper, maybe dies sure, council never twigs to Molly, as the culprit was already accounted for and nobody on the council lacks Harry's prejudice to actually pay attention, in fact, they would count on Eb NOT being able to look past it. Besides GKs clue, from a possible future, nobody on the council knew about Molly's connection, getting the clue from the future, how he could act on it was likely limited anyway. So Molly, as fear bringer incarnate, gets away Scott free.

Arctis Tor was attacked to keep Mab from interfering in the Reds attack on the Council. With an added note.  She knows that Lily and Maeve are close. So is Summer may be involved.  All else follows.

not a valid explanation, and entirely ignores that she wasn't allowed to, it's implied she literally makes a deal, and as part of that deal she can't try to get revenge later for the specific turn of events. This is why she allows Lea such free reign when Harry gets her aid in his quest, this was directly stated

Molly was targeted because she was in the Juvenile Justice System. Which in Chicago is corrupted by one or the other factions.  This was how Harry was disappeared as a child. And she was close to a Knight and Harry. An additional note if the White Court was involved it would explained how she was trapped. Perhaps by Madeline?

I have literally no idea what your talking about here, Molly wasn't in trouble or anything herself before the events of PG, this isn't a linear thing.

Mab can attack anyone as long as she doesn't do it herself.  This should be obvious after Small Favor where she sends the Hobs into a train station full of people to kill the Archive.

prove it, any of that statement. We don't know who sent the hobs 100%, we don't know why they were sent, and we don't know how much control they'd actually have once there. The Hobs did Hob things and attacked indiscriminately. She didn't, and can't order anyone killed on a whim. She specifically has the WK to send after people she wants killed who are not affiliated with the courts or somehow in debt, course, with the WK on ice, it seems to me instead of chosing to act, some things are just set free to act where she'd usually apply direct action. But sending something to kill just anyone is directly against what we know they're capacity is.

And the fact of Mab and Maeve are tap dancing around each other is supported in the denouement.In as much as anything Jim does is straightforward the why of it all is also in there.

don't think that's accurate, just perspective. We know the queens only really act against each other to maintain balance. As shown in BG, they actually act in concert with the other, just in opposite. They were one upping their Nemesis, the player Harry doesn't know about yet there.

I suggested Uriel was moving in the background. The books are written out of order.  But as is, that puts the attack on Arctis Tor after Harry speaks to Mab in Dead Beat.  And her retaliation has to be withheld.

One final note about TT.  Did Jim think it would be cute to have Harry or someone save him from his toy.  Why did Lash stay silent during the first attempt but balk at the second. All the questions become moot if you speculate that Lash caused the flaw and that she used Harry to cause Bob to not see it.  Even if none of the rest of the plan worked Harry was slated to die when he tried to use it.

really, really off topic and kinda confusing. But no... Without the message from GK he wouldn't have been in that situation of needing it yet, and Lasciel would have had more time to work on him. Don't think he was ever fated to die there, fated to fall perhaps.(although, alot of the TT specifically deals with stopping him from dying, it still works because they do so indirectly, without abrogation of free will and ergo fate. Aaand back down the rabbit hole...

(click to show/hide)

Everytime the timeline changes the person whose come back from the future changed to match the results of time playing out on it's current course. The current meta playing out has Harry eventually taking up lasciel, which would be how he later launches the assault on Arctis Tor. This continues into the Raith Deeps when Lash sacrifices herself. Where Harry as a clear inversion of Nic, manifests lasciel as a giant flaming being opposite Nics shadowy manifestation. Changing the new timeline and how those who came from it manifest.

[morriswalters]

Of course everything we write is conjecture, since my name isn't Jim Butcher how could it be otherwise?

This is the prime motivator of the book.

“You remember the Red Court’s attack last year,” he said. “That they called up Outsiders and assaulted us within the realm of Faerie itself.”

“Bad move, so I’ve heard. The Faeries are going to take it out of their hides.”

“So we all thought,” the old man said. “In fact, Summer declared war upon the Red Court and began preliminary assaults on them. But Winter hasn’t responded—and Summer hasn’t done much more than secure its borders.”

“Queen Mab didn’t declare war?”

“No.”

I frowned. “Never thought she’d pass up the chance. She’s all about carnage and bloodshed.”

“It surprised us as well,” he said. “So I want to ask a favor of you.”

I eyed him without speaking.

“Find out why,” he said. “You have contacts within the Courts. Find out what’s happening. Find out why the Sidhe haven’t gone to war.”

Here is the secondary mover.

Dresden,

In the past ten days there have been repeated acts of black magic in Chicago. As the senior Warden in the region, it falls to you to investigate and find those responsible. In my opinion, it is vital that you do so immediately. To my knowledge, no one else is aware of the situation.

Rashid

Michael tossed his case and his bag into the back of his white pickup truck. “Molly was arrested. Possession.”

I blinked at him. “She was possessed?”

He sighed and looked at me. “Possession. Marijuana and Ecstasy. She was at a party and the police raided it. She was caught holding them.”

“Wow,” I said, my voice subdued. “What happened?”

“Community service,”

In this book at this point in the series Molly is nothing but a damsel in distress.  She takes part in no fights, contributes to the plot in no way other than being the damsel.

“Why?” I demanded. “Why did you want the Denarians stopped? Why send the hobs to kill the Archive? Why recruit me to save the Archive and Marcone in the event that the hobs failed?”

Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me. “Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition. That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted. And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home.”

Mother Winter, Mab and Maeve are all Queens.  Maeve and Mab were having a family fight.

That's all I have time for.

[The_Sibelis]

Of course everything we write is conjecture, since my name isn't Jim Butcher how could it be otherwise?

This is the prime motivator of the book.Here is the secondary mover.In this book at this point in the series Molly is nothing but a damsel in distress.  She takes part in no fights, contributes to the plot in no way other than being the damsel.Mother Winter, Mab and Maeve are all Queens.  Maeve and Mab were having a family fight.

That's all I have time for.

conjecture is an idea specifically based on incomplete information.  As opposed to a theory which is postulated on incomplete information, subtle difference to me. actually your quote proved my point, nobody else knew of the situation with Molly. She wasn't in distress, she was the distress.
Mab and Maeve having a family fight doesn't cover HALF of it, she figures out Maeve is infected based on her actions in this book yes, but in order for that to be a side piece she already had to have had a culprit acting for Maeve to support. Nothing you said lines up to me and when I press you say you don't have time to explain? ignore me in the future then, I'm don't have anything for you.

[morriswalters]

I'm uncertain what you seem to be angry about. I've spent a couple of hours writing those posts and I have other things that I have to do.  But I will of course respect your wishes.

[The_Sibelis]

I'm uncertain what you seem to be angry about. I've spent a couple of hours writing those posts and I have other things that I have to do.  But I will of course respect your wishes.

I'm not 🤔 but when people interrupt theory craft to tell us the limit of what we know I definitely whing. I'm seriously tempted to put together a thread pointing out Harry doesn't have the right grasp on things and, for instance, looking for the black Council leads to an absolute dead end based on faulty perspective given to us. The books not meant to give you answers, Jim has admitted as much. He intentionally leaves a blank space an expects you to fill in th gap to figure out what's going on and make the leap yourself. Though I admit freely, when it seems people are tripping those trying to get a head start on the leap, smothering creativity in theory craft, I doth frown greatly. By all means bring up the clues and counter dictions, if something directly contradicts an idea, I'd love to know about it so I can evolve and adapt there, but not the book conclusions. We've all read them, If those were so perfect, we'd not have anything to discuss.

[groinkick]

Is there really another kind of time travel story?

Yep.  Back to the future 1 & 3.  About Time is another movie without that.  Besides Back to the Future 2 I can't recall a time travel story where someone is going back in time to prevent a villain from doing something bad.  I guess on Star Trek Voyager, Star Trek TNG, and DS9 they had that kind of time travel story but they weren't as thought out as what Jim has been setting up (if the theory is true)

[groinkick]

very similar to my idea, except I'd still think it's hellfire. Have you.. looked at the MCU multiversal set up? The branches and the different limbs and all that. That's exactly how I'd been trying to describe how I think harry getting home from MM would be, he has to jump through the different smaller timeline to get to bigger branches that get him closer to his core reality, except he has to make sure events match at each point enough to be similar to his next jump. Which would bring us back to the reality we know, and explain why it's so fractured and details misaligned. Because he gets to a very similar timeline, but in the closed loop aspect of it, it's not quite the same. I theorize alot of the sudden changes or "errors", past events no longer referenced, ect.(direct, on screen changes, like the car in DB outside of Bocks, are actively happening which is why the splice is there)Are the results of Harry changing what happened to suite him. Saving Thomas from shagnasty perhaps..?

(click to show/hide)

a long time ago Jim was asked about shagnasty and his response was something to do with how powerful a being who would consider a Nag a foot soldier should give some indicator of who summoned sent him or some such... We now know Harry is fully capable of releasing them, and what more, iirc Harry's was the only empty spot in the room of six, shoulda been a full magical number seven though no? One was missing. I think when time looped back around and Harry saw the damage he did to Thomas he forbade him from doing such the next time he experienced the event of going back and, as Warden, releasing Shagnasty.

just an idea. But I try to see what point any TT would have, what's the causality of it. Arctis Tor would seem to have got Mabs attention on molly perhaps, and certainly left the bastion clear when Harry came calling. The why of it is less clear, I'm wondering if he didn't assault the fortress not as an enemy outright but an unwelcome ally. Causing a direct confrontation with Mab before leaving in truce, or in chase of Nemesis escaping?  Prevent Mabs infection, but indirectly cause Maeves?
I remember people here talking about the way things just seem to warp off center in the double books, Carlos' fist bump somehow marking Dresden and such, I theorize, much like the Doppler effect of the time travel attack on DR, the closer you get to the event horizon the bigger the waves. Thinking of other similarities in stories like a sound of thunder.

Oh wow that would be really epic.  I hadn't thought about that.  I thought he'd just defeat evil Dresden and get back.  That would be pretty interesting if the Time Travel book was his way of getting back to his reality from the Mirror Mirror universe.

[morriswalters]

Yep.  Back to the future 1 & 3.  About Time is another movie without that.  Besides Back to the Future 2 I can't recall a time travel story where someone is going back in time to prevent a villain from doing something bad.  I guess on Star Trek Voyager, Star Trek TNG, and DS9 they had that kind of time travel story but they weren't as thought out as what Jim has been setting up (if the theory is true)

Time Cop is one and I could name a dozen or so books without straining, The Door Into Summer by by Heinlein and The Chronicles of St Mary's being two.  But Jim will bring his own blend of prose and humor to the table.

@The_Sibelis
There is nothing on any level that I could possibly do to affect whatever enjoyment you find here. Nor would I wish to. I have no brief, no special knowledge, just the construction that my imagination creates from the prose. Now you have requested I leave you alone and I have said I will.

[Mira]

Time Cop is one and I could name a dozen or so books without straining, The Door Into Summer by by Heinlein and The Chronicles of St Mary's being two.  But Jim will bring his own blend of prose and humor to the table.

It's been done so much it is tired, which is my point..  There is enough multidimensional interplay, the Outsiders, the Old Ones, the Outer Gates, the Nevernever, Hades, Heaven, Valhalla, wizards. that all along the way in real time beings from these dimensions could be messing with Little Chicago, calling up Cornerhounds, etc., for their own reasons, no need for Harry or anyone else to travel though time for any of it.  The trick is for him to figure out the big mystery.. Not as easy perhaps as time travel, but perhaps more interesting.