Who summoned the Cornerhounds?

[groinkick]

Butters calls them the Hounds of Tindalos.

Interesting.  Harry said that Eb's hands weren't steady when they arrived.  I wonder if it wasn't entirely because of the Corner Hounds themselves but the implication.  It meant that someone had messed with (or traveled through) time.

So that's probably a really big deal:

1.  Someone messed with time
2.  Because the Corner Hounds arrived near them it stands to reason that the person is near them
3.  Even more likely it's Eb or Harry.
4.  If Harry it means he will be executed
5.  If Eb then he knows that something really really bad is going down, and that he at present doesn't know what.

So I think that Eb's reaction to them is probably important.  He also seemed to know a lot about them hinting he may have dealt with them before.

[Mira]

So I think that Eb's reaction to them is probably important.  He also seemed to know a lot about them hinting he may have dealt with them before.

It could mean that, or it could mean that in his three hundred years of life as a very powerful wizard, Eb would know a lot about them and may have fought them before. 

Butters also could be wrong about who they are, yeah he is a Holy Knight now, but has he been given a full course on the supernatural?  Michael hasn't. 

If it was Harry messing with time, it had to be another Harry, because the one telling the story doesn't seem to be.  If it was Eb, why would he risk that kind of attack upon himself and Harry by time travel?

I think we are making this more complex than need be, go back and read what HWWB tells Harry on the boat just before they get to the island. 

[morriswalters]

Harry names them as he banishes them.  And Eb and Harry discuss corner hounds as they fight.

[Mira]

Harry names them as he banishes them.  And Eb and Harry discuss corner hounds as they fight.

Yeah, but he is also inside their head at that point and sees what they see.  It is more like Eb
instructing Harry what to do as they go along than anything, apparently it did take both of them
to successfully fight them.

[morriswalters]

You already know that at least one character is hunting Harry's and using them to cover what he does.

Pointing out that Harry speaks the name as he banishes them just places the use of the name.  Butters is responding to Harry telling him what he had fought.

Eb's hand shaking is one of the many clue bats dropped in the book.  And while it points to fear it represents the fear that comes with aging and the loss of the virility of youth.  Jim points it out about all of the Senior Council.

[Mira]

Eb's hand shaking is one of the many clue bats dropped in the book.  And while it points to fear it represents the fear that comes with aging and the loss of the virility of youth.  Jim points it out about all of the Senior Council.

Yes, that along with Eb barely being able to control himself emotionally, which is very dangerous in a wizard.  Which actually would have led to Harry's death if Harry hadn't anticipated that Eb might lose control.

[Second Aristh]

Interesting.  Harry said that Eb's hands weren't steady when they arrived.  I wonder if it wasn't entirely because of the Corner Hounds themselves but the implication.  It meant that someone had messed with (or traveled through) time.

So that's probably a really big deal:

1.  Someone messed with time
2.  Because the Corner Hounds arrived near them it stands to reason that the person is near them
3.  Even more likely it's Eb or Harry.
4.  If Harry it means he will be executed
5.  If Eb then he knows that something really really bad is going down, and that he at present doesn't know what.

So I think that Eb's reaction to them is probably important.  He also seemed to know a lot about them hinting he may have dealt with them before.

Yeah, most of the oldest Senior Council seemed to get frail physical descriptions this book.  I think it's to help foreshadow a changing of the guard.

As far as in story, Eb is aware of the Circle screwing with things lately, so a weird assassination attempt from the White Court combined with political issues from Harry was bad enough.  Throw in Outsiders specifically connected with time travel, and it's really bad.

[Griffyn612]

Here's a thought.

Eb summoned them on accident, simply by drawing their attention by inadvertently messing with the localized flow of time.

   The universe yawed slightly in his direction as he
did, a subtle bending of light, a minor wobble of
gravity, a shudder in the very ground as Ebenezar
drank power from the earth itself.

Bending light?
Universe yawing toward him?

That's the kind of behavior one sees around a black hole.

And as we all know, dense gravity can affect the flow of time. Dense gravity that's strong enough to bend light would be way more than enough to cause gravitational time dilation.

So maybe it was less that someone sent them, and more that they were already in reality, and Eb accidentally did enough, between his power and his fear, to draw their attention.

We're so busy trying to fit the attack into the plot, when it might later be revealed that it had nothing to do with the bad guys, and everything to do with Eb losing control of his power, as others pointed out.

[Second Aristh]

Here's a thought.

Eb summoned them on accident, simply by drawing their attention by inadvertently messing with the localized flow of time.

Bending light?
Universe yawing toward him?

That's the kind of behavior one sees around a black hole.

And as we all know, dense gravity can affect the flow of time. Dense gravity that's strong enough to bend light would be way more than enough to cause gravitational time dilation.

So maybe it was less that someone sent them, and more that they were already in reality, and Eb accidentally did enough, between his power and his fear, to draw their attention.

We're so busy trying to fit the attack into the plot, when it might later be revealed that it had nothing to do with the bad guys, and everything to do with Eb losing control of his power, as others pointed out.

Eb is drawing in power.  I don't think his gravity is drawing in light (anything in the vicinity would probably be pretty smashed for gravity that strong to suddenly appear in a place).  The energy sink from Eb taking a big magical breath draws in light a bit too.

[Griffyn612]

Eb is drawing in power.  I don't think his gravity is drawing in light (anything in the vicinity would probably be pretty smashed for gravity that strong to suddenly appear in a place).  The energy sink from Eb taking a big magical breath draws in light a bit too.

Magic in the Dresdenverse still obeys the laws of physics. So any energy sink powerful enough to manipulate gravity and light and the universe itself would, in all likelihood, manipulate time as well, however minutely.

He might not be trying to create a micro black hole, and he might not be trying to manipulate time, but the former fits the description of what he did, and the latter is a likely side effect of such an energy draw.

I'm not saying it's likely that he summoned them with that and his fear, but I think it could be possible.

[Second Aristh]

Magic in the Dresdenverse still obeys the laws of physics. So any energy sink powerful enough to manipulate gravity and light and the universe itself would, in all likelihood, manipulate time as well, however minutely.

He might not be trying to create a micro black hole, and he might not be trying to manipulate time, but the former fits the description of what he did, and the latter is a likely side effect of such an energy draw.

I'm not saying it's likely that he summoned them with that and his fear, but I think it could be possible.

Fair enough, but if Eb drawing in power like that had some chance of what you say, surely Harry's giant gravity hammer in Changes would do it on a much higher scale?  Physics is physics, but sometimes the magical rule of cool wins the day.

[Griffyn612]

Fair enough, but if Eb drawing in power like that had some chance of what you say, surely Harry's giant gravity hammer in Changes would do it on a much higher scale?  Physics is physics, but sometimes the magical rule of cool wins the day.

I would imagine it depends on the magnitude and method.

Harry's spell weakened gravity in a large area to increase gravity in a small area. It was an area of effect spell that had no noted affect on any other aspect of reality.

Eb's spell was so acute that it did a lot in a dense space with no regional compensation, so reality itself bent and twisted to compensate.

It's more likely that someone sent them, but I could also see Harry having an epiphany later with Eb where he realizes it was just because Eb we reckless in his method. That, combined with his reckless spell later that would have killed him, could be the case against Eb being stable enough for his job.

[groinkick]

Here is another possibility.  The Hounds were sent to attack Harry (Or Eb or both) from someone in the past or more likely, they future.  Here is something interesting about the Hounds of Tindalos:

"The Hounds of Tindalos are extra-dimensional predatory creatures, capable of materializing at any point in space and time to feed upon victims."

If this is true then it could mean that someone sent them from a different point in time to where Harry, and Eb were.  Heck maybe Eb killed Harry, and sent the Hounds back in time with the hope that they would do exactly what they did do, stop Harry and Eb from throwing down.

Yeah, most of the oldest Senior Council seemed to get frail physical descriptions this book.  I think it's to help foreshadow a changing of the guard.

lol did you skip over the duel between Eb, and Harry?  Eb was an absolute boss, and showed no signs of being frail.  He showed the opposite.  If he'd have taken on Harry Dresden without the Winter Knight Mantle, he may very well have kicked his ass up around his ears. (I know it wasn't really Harry but you know what I mean)

[morriswalters]

@groinkick
Eb will die in a fight.  Men like him don't die quietly.  So as you age at some point you realize that you will never be as strong as you were the last time and that sooner or later you won't be strong enough to win.  That's how Jim is writing him. He's signaling that the fight is in the near future.

I don't think he's bending time.  Somebody is time traveling. Or crossing between time lines.

[Second Aristh]

lol did you skip over the duel between Eb, and Harry?  Eb was an absolute boss, and showed no signs of being frail.  He showed the opposite.  If he'd have taken on Harry Dresden without the Winter Knight Mantle, he may very well have kicked his ass up around his ears. (I know it wasn't really Harry but you know what I mean)

Oh, Eb is still a badass that can stomp on most anyone; that's not what I'm saying.  But Eb, Listens to Wind, and Martha Liberty are given descriptions that make them seem past their prime, moreso than in previous books.  Maybe I'm reading more into what River Shoulders was saying in PT.