Author Topic: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG  (Read 1238 times)

Offline groinkick

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Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« on: March 02, 2021, 06:53:58 PM »
Ok obviously as a Titan, Ethniu wields a lot of power.  An incredible amount of power.  Still I belive there is another reason she was able to take on Titania, Odin, and Erlking at the same time.  A reason she could compell Ferovax, the most powerful Dragon, and celestial Being.

Ferro stated that his true form would crush houses, and warp reality.  So to be in the mortal world he has to leave a lot of his power at the door so to speak.  It's the same reason why I think Mother Winter needs her walking stick.  It allows her to be on Earth without destroying reality. 

I suspect that the Titan armor made by the hundred handers acts much like Mother Winters walking stick.  It allowed Ethniu to bring much more, or maybe all over her power onto Earth without destroying reality.  It meant she could hit with everything she had while the ones she was fighting could not use all their power. 
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline The_Sibelis

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2021, 09:40:21 PM »
Interesting. I had been wondering why she could be there in her entirety

Offline vincentric

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2021, 09:54:26 PM »
Ethniu never had to give up power to remain in this reality. She has never left it and simply remained low-key until BG. Remember she is called theLast Titan by Vadderung. So she's just the last of the beings of her power level walking around free. There are greater powers locked in Demonreach according to Harry's thoughts while confronting the HWWB on the boat.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2021, 03:02:25 AM »
Interesting. I had been wondering why she could be there in her entirety
Me too.

Ok obviously as a Titan, Ethniu wields a lot of power.  An incredible amount of power.  Still I belive there is another reason she was able to take on Titania, Odin, and Erlking at the same time.  A reason she could compell Ferovax, the most powerful Dragon, and celestial Being.

Ferro stated that his true form would crush houses, and warp reality.  So to be in the mortal world he has to leave a lot of his power at the door so to speak.  It's the same reason why I think Mother Winter needs her walking stick.  It allows her to be on Earth without destroying reality. 

I suspect that the Titan armor made by the hundred handers acts much like Mother Winters walking stick.  It allowed Ethniu to bring much more, or maybe all over her power onto Earth without destroying reality.  It meant she could hit with everything she had while the ones she was fighting could not use all their power. 
A very interesting theory! I quite like it. Especially when you consider Titanic Bronze is a alloy of divine metal (so central to reality) and anti-life (something from outside of reality). Perhaps the combination is what allows her to do what most other beings in her weight class cannot. It actually makes a certain amount of sense. Especially when you consider that Angels in order to really "act" have to be bound to physical objects, and wielded by mortals. It is hinted they are similar sorts of beings. Perhaps Ethniu possessed/created a physical body but because it is of the physical world it has physical weaknesses. In fact, I suspect part of the reason Ethniu was happy to have reality break down is because it is easier for her and those like her to be free and not worry about pesky physical laws. So Ethniu then has to create a special weapon, this special suit of armour which allows her to anchor and amplify/focus her power on Earth. But there is of course a cost - it means she is vulnerable to mortal events. I suspect smarter, more defensive beings would never commit their whole self to any one place in spacetime. There is even a hint that this is the whole reason the mantle system in the Queens and Knights exists.

Ethniu never had to give up power to remain in this reality. She has never left it and simply remained low-key until BG. Remember she is called theLast Titan by Vadderung. So she's just the last of the beings of her power level walking around free. There are greater powers locked in Demonreach according to Harry's thoughts while confronting the HWWB on the boat.
I understand what you're getting at here but I don't think that's quite it. Yes, she is the last of those old beings walking around (supposedly). Always silly to call yourself something absolute, what happens if there is another Titan? Does she then call herself "The Almost Last Titan" or "The Second Last Titan Pending Further Reveals"? Doesn't have the same feeling does it.

But I digress. We don't yet understand why Vadderung had to give up most of his power in order to be active in the mortal world. We only know that this happened because of certain WOJs that specifically tell us about it. It's clear Hades and others like him didn't choose that, but as a consequence lost influence on the world. Which Vadderung clearly believes is worth fighting for, perhaps even worth dying for. But Jim has stated repeatedly the Gods had to back off from the mortal world because they mostly sort-of fulfilled their part of things and either were retired and became pro-wrestlers (because of course Jim), or chose to inhabit the timestream differently, or retire to the Nevernever, or were killed or locked-away in some cases.

I suspect Ethniu hid in order to not be killed or locked up (again - she might have a bit of PTSD over it, interesting choice Harry), but clearly also because she felt she had the divine right to rule but didn't have the power to support it - not just in terms of her divine might but also her army. I suspect she didn't even have access to Titanic Bronze or her father's Eye - almost certainly the work of the Outsiders/HWWBt and/or the Black Council. But she clearly was plotting her revenge for centuries if not millennia. She and Corb were building an army hoping they could take on mortal world but knew there would be other powers that would contest them, namely their old enemies the Fae/Sidhe.

Consider that most of those being who didn't chose to step-back from reality or give up most of their power were probably taken out or locked-up. Question is, who was doing all that? The Wizards seem like an obvious choice...but probably not unaided.

Offline Gman

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2021, 05:03:26 PM »
Ok obviously as a Titan, Ethniu wields a lot of power.  An incredible amount of power.  Still I belive there is another reason she was able to take on Titania, Odin, and Erlking at the same time.  A reason she could compell Ferovax, the most powerful Dragon, and celestial Being.

Ferro stated that his true form would crush houses, and warp reality.  So to be in the mortal world he has to leave a lot of his power at the door so to speak.  It's the same reason why I think Mother Winter needs her walking stick.  It allows her to be on Earth without destroying reality. 

I suspect that the Titan armor made by the hundred handers acts much like Mother Winters walking stick.  It allowed Ethniu to bring much more, or maybe all over her power onto Earth without destroying reality.  It meant she could hit with everything she had while the ones she was fighting could not use all their power.
 
She feeds on fear. She got a lot of beings afraid and most of Chicago. Remember Harry was able to do more due to so much magic being around during the battle. She got pumped up I think partially due to that and gaining power from terrified mortals. She is very powerful to begin with.

Offline Mira

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2021, 06:12:51 PM »
 
She feeds on fear. She got a lot of beings afraid and most of Chicago. Remember Harry was able to do more due to so much magic being around during the battle. She got pumped up I think partially due to that and gaining power from terrified mortals. She is very powerful to begin with.

Yes, but it was also her weakness, that is why ultimately she was tricked and defeated.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2021, 06:24:08 PM »
Yes, but it was also her weakness, that is why ultimately she was tricked and defeated.

How so?  She'd worked out a deal with Drakul that Dresden and friends stopped.  Then the Fomor were getting crushed by mortal forces.  Finally she made the mistake of taking up Odin's weapon which he ordered to blow up in her face. Mab also tricked her by wasting an energy blast on her rather than the forces...  I don't think she was tricked, her plans just didn't work.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Mira

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2021, 08:27:19 PM »
How so?  She'd worked out a deal with Drakul that Dresden and friends stopped.  Then the Fomor were getting crushed by mortal forces.  Finally she made the mistake of taking up Odin's weapon which he ordered to blow up in her face. Mab also tricked her by wasting an energy blast on her rather than the forces...  I don't think she was tricked, her plans just didn't work.

Oh yeah, she was, Odin played possum, she thought she had him and grabbed his spear, then he turned it on her when she tried to use it.  Between that and the worked out team work, the eye was popped out of her head..  Good pre-planning, she was over confident, that is why it worked.

Offline TheCuriousFan

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2021, 11:32:42 PM »
I mean, Vadderung's plan relied on her not double tapping, if she'd shanked Vadderung after stealing his spear things would have gone a lot worse for team Chicago. The plan ran on luck at that point.
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Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2021, 12:45:40 PM »
 
She feeds on fear. She got a lot of beings afraid and most of Chicago. Remember Harry was able to do more due to so much magic being around during the battle. She got pumped up I think partially due to that and gaining power from terrified mortals. She is very powerful to begin with.
But she was already powerful before Chicago was afraid of her. And to be precise, it was the Eye of Balor that was powered by fear. While she claimed that the gods/titans needed mortal fear more than love, she clearly already had plenty of gas in the tank when she showed up. I would say she might have been refilling her tank during the battle.

Oh yeah, she was, Odin played possum, she thought she had him and grabbed his spear, then he turned it on her when she tried to use it.  Between that and the worked out team work, the eye was popped out of her head..  Good pre-planning, she was over confident, that is why it worked.
Jim basically stole that move from D&D. In first edition grabbing Odin's spear would cause horrible damage to a person who was not allowed to. It's not just one thing that stopped her though. She was over-confident, Vadderung and Mab etc planned well, Corb was a poor ally, Harry was an x-factor (not just because of his Arma Christi or Demonreach - although one could argue he has been set up with the right tools for the job for a while). I don't know it was merely luck. There were literal agents of fate involved. I suspect higher level cosmic forces were at work. Ethniu didn't quite have enough on her side to swing it perhaps.

Offline didymos

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2021, 02:40:45 PM »
And to be precise, it was the Eye of Balor that was powered by fear.

It was hate, not fear:

Quote
“The Eye,” I said. “It was made of pure hate. I felt that.”

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (p. 394). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2021, 07:38:50 PM »
Consider that most of those being who didn't chose to step-back from reality or give up most of their power were probably taken out or locked-up. Question is, who was doing all that? The Wizards seem like an obvious choice...but probably not unaided.
The Archive, covertly of course, probably had a hand in it. It's got to be a lot easier to obliviate a being if it's locked up in Demonreach and unable to preserve humanity's knowledge of it.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2021, 08:44:46 PM »
I mean, Vadderung's plan relied on her not double tapping, if she'd shanked Vadderung after stealing his spear things would have gone a lot worse for team Chicago. The plan ran on luck at that point.

Jim did say he's a master at planning... Also he's a risk taker for sure.  Willing to become part mortal was a big risk.  So his plan may have blown up in his face, but I think weighed the odds, and went for it.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2021, 01:10:53 PM »
It was hate, not fear:
Quote
“The Eye,” I said. “It was made of pure hate. I felt that.”

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (p. 394). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.
The Eye is made of pure hate, but it is powered by fear. A small but important difference.

Quote
"Hell's bells," I complained. "How many shots does that thing have?"

"It's being fuelled by the city's fear now, boss," Bob said seriously. "It'll run out when everyone's dead. Which was the general idea, when it was created. That's a part of what Mab's trying to do, too. Dampen everyone's fear. Rob the enemy of power."

Butcher, Jim. Battle Ground (Dresden Files) (p. 172). Penguin Publishing Group.

The Archive, covertly of course, probably had a hand in it. It's got to be a lot easier to obliviate a being if it's locked up in Demonreach and unable to preserve humanity's knowledge of it.
Indeed, the whole Oblivion War end goal. Yes the Archive generally isn't an active participant in those fights (excluding the current avatar perhaps), but her goals are entwined with any such action. But surely there were other players...likely at higher levels and certainly more active bounty hunters/assassins/etc of the old gods.

Jim did say he's a master at planning... Also he's a risk taker for sure.  Willing to become part mortal was a big risk.  So his plan may have blown up in his face, but I think weighed the odds, and went for it.
All things seem to run a bit on luck. Even the Mother's seem to be subject a little if what Mother Summer said to Harry in Cold Days is to be believed. However, I think you are correct in that Vadderung creates his own luck too. He put himself in a position to influence such fights, and gave himself the right tools and right allies for such things. Being mortal-ish is clearly part of that.

Offline vultur

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Re: Why Ethniu was so powerful in BG
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2021, 04:55:45 AM »
Jim did say he's a master at planning... Also he's a risk taker for sure.  Willing to become part mortal was a big risk.  So his plan may have blown up in his face, but I think weighed the odds, and went for it.

Yeah, foresight is kind of Odin's thing. DF has lots of other cosmologies involved, and fate isn't as strong as it is in Norse myth, but I don't think it was just luck either.