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Author Topic: little apocalypses  (Read 3554 times)

Offline deadvoid

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little apocalypses
« on: December 16, 2020, 11:21:49 PM »
Battle Ground started with
Quote
Apocalypses always kick off at the witching hour.
That’s something you know now.
There are 9 occurences of the word Apocalypse in that book. One of them seems to be an emphasis
Quote
That’s when an apocalypse begins: the witching hour.
and another explains the nature of it
Quote
“Apocalypse isn’t an event,” Nemesis murmured. “It is a frame of mind.”
I probably would have staggered anyway, but the phrase hit hard.


Sounds for me, or the readers, the right interpretation would be

Apocalypse is a frame of mind while witnessing multiple apocalyptic events starting from Ethniu until the culminating Big A events & the end of the series.

So, if
 
a freaking Titan started the Apocalypse by destroying a city so she gets to rule the entire world is the start of little apocalypses,

what else would count as little (as I think most of us agree BAT would consists of attempts on cosmic annihilation which means they're Big)?
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Offline Avernite

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 07:20:56 PM »
Quote from: deadvoid on December 16, 2020, 11:21:49 PM
Battle Ground started with There are 9 occurences of the word Apocalypse in that book. One of them seems to be an emphasisand another explains the nature of it

Sounds for me, or the readers, the right interpretation would be

Apocalypse is a frame of mind while witnessing multiple apocalyptic events starting from Ethniu until the culminating Big A events & the end of the series.

So, if
 
a freaking Titan started the Apocalypse by destroying a city so she gets to rule the entire world is the start of little apocalypses,

what else would count as little (as I think most of us agree BAT would consists of attempts on cosmic annihilation which means they're Big)?
I think wiping out the Red Court was a little apocalypse.
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Offline Mira

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2020, 12:44:47 PM »
Quote from: Avernite on December 17, 2020, 07:20:56 PM
I think wiping out the Red Court was a little apocalypse.

It was for the Red Court at any rate... ::)
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Offline morriswalters

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2020, 05:02:06 PM »
It all depends on where your standing when the shit hits the fan.
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Offline Mira

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2020, 11:38:24 PM »
Quote from: morriswalters on December 18, 2020, 05:02:06 PM
It all depends on where your standing when the shit hits the fan.
Either way, it is called making a big stink!
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Offline deadvoid

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2020, 01:18:21 AM »
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Either way, it is called making a big stink!
Big stinky Apocalypse!
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Offline Dina

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2020, 02:45:06 AM »
Well, perhaps Harry taking down the White Council will be an apocalypse  :)
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There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline deadvoid

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2020, 04:26:57 AM »
I don't think White Council will be taken down, it will go through some changes to some other form most probably, but even if it's disbanded there will be wizards who'd come together to build some form of governance or at least alliances, which eventually be another version of White Council.
Besides, Rashid seems like a reaaally hard guy to kill and he supports White Council; there's also unavoidable needs for centralized power nexus to combat truely evil wielders of black magics, like necromancers.
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Offline Dina

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2020, 04:49:31 AM »
Quote from: deadvoid on December 19, 2020, 04:26:57 AM
I don't think White Council will be taken down, it will go through some changes to some other form most probably, but even if it's disbanded there will be wizards who'd come together to build some form of governance or at least alliances, which eventually be another version of White Council.
Besides, Rashid seems like a reaaally hard guy to kill and he supports White Council; there's also unavoidable needs for centralized power nexus to combat truely evil wielders of black magics, like necromancers.

Well, by taking down the Council I mean that. Not that Harry will kill every wizard but that he will obliterate the institution of the WC, at least the way it is now. And I think Rashid will align with him (but of course, it may be that in the end Rashid is going to betray Dresden. With JB, we never know)
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Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline Mira

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2020, 02:12:26 PM »
Quote from: Dina on December 19, 2020, 04:49:31 AM
Well, by taking down the Council I mean that. Not that Harry will kill every wizard but that he will obliterate the institution of the WC, at least the way it is now. And I think Rashid will align with him (but of course, it may be that in the end Rashid is going to betray Dresden. With JB, we never know)

But if the WC as an institution is taken down, I don't think that quite qualifies as an apocalypse.  In fact if Harry does it, it most likely is to prevent one.
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Offline deadvoid

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2020, 11:30:26 PM »
yeah unless it involves more than just wizards & humans, imho it's not apocalypse
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Offline Dina

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2020, 12:20:36 AM »
Well, I expect all that magic around will have an effect on the masquerade that will deepens what happened in Chicago. It could be a sort of apocalypse in that sense, making humans (even outside of Chicago) more aware of magic and wizards and beginning to fight back.
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Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

Offline morriswalters

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2020, 12:26:34 AM »
An apocalypse is whatever Jim defines it to be in the text. For me one apocalypse would be the moment I know I'm about to die.  By definition a world ending event from my perspective.

One whole subtext of the books is that the Council has been subverted from within.  It is no longer the Council Merlin created.  One of the problems with the books is that we have no idea of the political mechanization's that took place in the interval from Changes to Battleground.  We went from the young Wardens and Luccio being confined to Carlos and his cohorts giving a purity test at midnight in the middle of the road.
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Offline Mira

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2020, 07:36:58 AM »
Quote from: morriswalters on December 20, 2020, 12:26:34 AM
An apocalypse is whatever Jim defines it to be in the text. For me one apocalypse would be the moment I know I'm about to die.  By definition a world ending event from my perspective.

One whole subtext of the books is that the Council has been subverted from within.  It is no longer the Council Merlin created.  One of the problems with the books is that we have no idea of the political mechanization's that took place in the interval from Changes to Battleground.  We went from the young Wardens and Luccio being confined to Carlos and his cohorts giving a purity test at midnight in the middle of the road.

Yes, for my part that was one of the real weaknesses of Peace Talks.  Eb arrives on scene in full panic mode, demanding that Harry go and glad hand a bunch of Council members because they are
about to kick him out.  But why now?  Nor why in the the end they had to trump up a charge that he was using magic to take out some "human turtlenecks" in Chicago to boot him out.  Especially when the case can be made that the other members of the Council present also no doubt took a few quasi humans as well in the course of the battle.
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Offline BrainFireBob

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Re: little apocalypses
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2020, 08:34:28 PM »
Quote from: deadvoid on December 16, 2020, 11:21:49 PM
Battle Ground started with There are 9 occurences of the word Apocalypse in that book. One of them seems to be an emphasisand another explains the nature of it

Sounds for me, or the readers, the right interpretation would be

Apocalypse is a frame of mind while witnessing multiple apocalyptic events starting from Ethniu until the culminating Big A events & the end of the series.

So, if
 
a freaking Titan started the Apocalypse by destroying a city so she gets to rule the entire world is the start of little apocalypses,

what else would count as little (as I think most of us agree BAT would consists of attempts on cosmic annihilation which means they're Big)?

Harry was staggered because Nicodemus said the same thing to him. Either Nemesis knows too much, or he's worked that closely with it.
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