It's all Mab's fault! (Battle Ground Spoilers)

[ClintACK]

When Ethniu takes the field and starts blasting things with the Eye of Balor, Mab counters with a psychic assault all over the city, strengthening her allies and oppressing her enemies.

"Everything coming in from that side knows, not in its head but deep down in its guts, that it is entering the lair of a predator and that it's never going home. Knows the odds are against it. Knows that every step forward brings it closer to death.

"... She'll blunt any non-useful terror you might feel, too. And she'll encourage your aggressive tendencies. Like maybe enough so that someone who is too physically screwed up to be involved in fighting instead convinces her friends to help her and heads out into the war.

... Butters leaned in to the conversation. "What happens if Mab keeps making things worse on the enemy?"

Bob let out a hysterical little cackle. "They go insane. I mean, obviously. It's a psychic assault."

So... two things to note:

1. Without Mab "Preparing the Field" Murphy might well have stayed at Mac's. The pain from her injuries would have prevented her from riding a motorcycle and shouldering a bazooka. And her desire to protect might well have overruled her desire to kick ass.

2. Without Mab "Preparing the Field" Rudolph might not have been so insanely panicked -- not to the point that his partner had to knock him unconscious.

[Mira]

So... two things to note:

1. Without Mab "Preparing the Field" Murphy might well have stayed at Mac's. The pain from her injuries would have prevented her from riding a motorcycle and shouldering a bazooka. And her desire to protect might well have overruled her desire to kick ass.

2. Without Mab "Preparing the Field" Rudolph might not have been so insanely panicked -- not to the point that his partner had to knock him

Mab may have been human once, but she either has forgotten how humans react, or she no longer cares.  She needed soldiers on the field, they are to be used and discarded as needed.

[Arjan]

Mab may have been human once, but she either has forgotten how humans react, or she no longer cares.  She needed soldiers on the field, they are to be used and discarded as needed.

To be fair that kind of decision was not out of reach for most human generals in history if they had the means they would certainly do it.

[Mira]

To be fair that kind of decision was not out of reach for most human generals in history if they had the means they would certainly do it.

I agree, and it is part of the understanding I believe she and Harry came to.  At some point Mab talks about giving up her soul bit by bit to save people who will never know who did it.  Or it might have been Harry, cannot remember now, but he understands because when those people chose to fight under his banner, he felt them die, and a bit of his soul with them.  I think the interactions between Harry and Mab are my favorite parts of the book.  Mab is also pleased that Harry didn't choose to use the Winter Mantle to compel people to fight under his banner.  I think she likes her Knight to be able to use the mantle as a tool, not have the mantle use him.  That was the case with Slate and as a result he was almost useless to her and ultimately betrayed her.

[huangjimmy108]

When Ethniu takes the field and starts blasting things with the Eye of Balor, Mab counters with a psychic assault all over the city, strengthening her allies and oppressing her enemies.

So... two things to note:

1. Without Mab "Preparing the Field" Murphy might well have stayed at Mac's. The pain from her injuries would have prevented her from riding a motorcycle and shouldering a bazooka. And her desire to protect might well have overruled her desire to kick ass.

2. Without Mab "Preparing the Field" Rudolph might not have been so insanely panicked -- not to the point that his partner had to knock him unconscious.

There is a certain truth in this assertion, though I think in the case of Murphy, Mab's influence does not change anything truly important. Murphy is too stubborn and has too  much experience with psychic assault to be truly effected by Mab's prompting. Even if Mab isn't there Murphy would do the same and she might even die faster in the war if her pain or some irrelevant fear distracted her during the battle. In Murphy's case, Mab's influence has all the positive effect without the negatives. At least I think so.

I am really upset when Murphy died. I mean, I stop reading the book for about 2 minutes just to calm myself down. Her death was quite a shock at the time.

Ultimately though her presence there is nescesary. Harry would have died at least twice if Murphy and the reinforcement she brings does not arrive in time. And without Harry Chicago would have been lost.

The price is heavy but I must say she died well. 

[Arjan]

There is a certain truth in this assertion, though I think in the case of Murphy, Mab's influence does not change anything truly important. Murphy is too stubborn and has too  much experience with psychic assault to be truly effected by Mab's prompting. Even if Mab isn't there Murphy would do the same and she might even die faster in the war if her pain or some irrelevant fear distracted her during the battle. In Murphy's case, Mab's influence has all the positive effect without the negatives. At least I think so.

I am really upset when Murphy died. I mean, I stop reading the book for about 2 minutes just to calm myself down. Her death was quite a shock at the time.

Ultimately though her presence there is nescesary. Harry would have died at least twice if Murphy and the reinforcement she brings does not arrive in time. And without Harry Chicago would have been lost.

The price is heavy but I must say she died well.

What Gard said.

[Nivarius]

I agree, and it is part of the understanding I believe she and Harry came to.  At some point Mab talks about giving up her soul bit by bit to save people who will never know who did it.  Or it might have been Harry, cannot remember now, but he understands because when those people chose to fight under his banner, he felt them die, and a bit of his soul with them.  I think the interactions between Harry and Mab are my favorite parts of the book.  Mab is also pleased that Harry didn't choose to use the Winter Mantle to compel people to fight under his banner.  I think she likes her Knight to be able to use the mantle as a tool, not have the mantle use him.  That was the case with Slate and as a result he was almost useless to her and ultimately betrayed her.

I read the moment as Mab being proud of Harry for not wanting to dull the pain with the Winter Mantle, and understanding that it was important for him to feel the people under his banner die, to remind him of the price.


Also, about all being Mab's fault... Rudolph and Murphy are a small sacrifice for being able to stop Ethniu. If she hadn't prepared the field, everyone would probably have died.

[Mira]

I read the moment as Mab being proud of Harry for not wanting to dull the pain with the Winter Mantle, and understanding that it was important for him to feel the people under his banner die, to remind him of the price.


Also, about all being Mab's fault... Rudolph and Murphy are a small sacrifice for being able to stop Ethniu. If she hadn't prepared the field, everyone would probably have died.

Yes, but I believe it is a little more complicated, that is why at the end of the book Harry understood now how someone like Mab loses her soul.  It doesn't happen all at once, but bit by bit.

I agree as far as Murphy is concerned.  Rudolph, however wasn't a sacrifice, it will be interesting to see if he survived if what is left of his sanity is intact.

[Dina]

I think the TWG is directly responsible for Murphy demise, I don't know why. Perhaps because she was not going to be happy ever again with so many injuries, perhaps because He needs that Harry losses her. I don't know. But Murphy did a wonderful thing, deserving a reward and perhaps Rest is the reward.

Why do I say that he is responsible, because too many "random" things led to Murphy's death. Bradley couldn't move with his daughter and Rudolph at the same time, so Harry and Murhpy asked him to leave Rudolph. The gun dropped to the floor and no one had the time to take it. Then Rudolph completely freak out. And Harry suddenly (not before that) discovered that he couldn't raise his arm for a Forzare. I just think there are too many "coincidences" and I only can see the TWG as having that control over reality.

[Arjan]

I think the TWG is directly responsible for Murphy demise, I don't know why. Perhaps because she was not going to be happy ever again with so many injuries, perhaps because He needs that Harry losses her. I don't know. But Murphy did a wonderful thing, deserving a reward and perhaps Rest is the reward.

Why do I say that he is responsible, because too many "random" things led to Murphy's death. Bradley couldn't move with his daughter and Rudolph at the same time, so Harry and Murhpy asked him to leave Rudolph. The gun dropped to the floor and no one had the time to take it. Then Rudolph completely freak out. And Harry suddenly (not before that) discovered that he couldn't raise his arm for a Forzare. I just think there are too many "coincidences" and I only can see the TWG as having that control over reality.

Odin has a certain reputation of making sure you die at the height of your reputation before you can decline so you can be collected by the valkyries

And those two can very well have worked together in this case in light of a recent woj about claims on persons and waking up in walhalla confused.

Because Karrin was a catholic Uriel had a claim too but they have yearly lunches and Karrin’s latest choice was more in line with Odin than with Christianity.

[huangjimmy108]

Odin has a certain reputation of making sure you die at the height of your reputation before you can decline so you can be collected by the valkyries

And those two can very well have worked together in this case in light of a recent woj about claims on persons and waking up in walhalla confused.

Because Karrin was a catholic Uriel had a claim too but they have yearly lunches and Katrina’s latest choice was more in line with Odin than with Christianity.

If not for the fact that JB is not known to break the fictional rule he just recently establish, I almost suspected Uriel might intervened in Murphy's case. Though usual einghenjar could not return untill all mortal memories of her is gone and even the ALL-father cannot break this rule, adding one of the Archangel to the equation should be enough reason to explain the rule breaking if needed. If there is indeed an unspeakable deal between Odin All-father and Uriel the watchman in regards to Murphy's soul, Murphy's return could indeed be hastened.

[Pirate101]

Because Karrin was a catholic Uriel had a claim too but they have yearly lunches and Karrin’s latest choice was more in line with Odin than with Christianity.

The Einherjar will all die at Ragnarok, Uriel will still get her in the end. Maybe service for Odin counts as her term in Purgatory. Only Saints go straight to heaven and she has been naughty. Got a divorce and remarried, that is a terrible sin ... she will have to do some time 😉

About Rudolph, it's interesting that Mab's spell heightened his fear - if that's what happened,  and I think it makes a lot of sense. Well spotted.

Mab saw Rudolph as an enemy, like Bob. Accidentally or with a very good reason?

[Arjan]

The Einherjar will all die at Ragnarok, Uriel will still get her in the end. Maybe service for Odin counts as her term in Purgatory. Only Saints go straight to heaven and she has been naughty. Got a divorce and remarried, that is a terrible sin ... she will have to do some time 😉

If ragnarok ever comes. It could be, just like apocalypse, a state of mind, not a literal unavoidable future.

From how I feel the series everyone tries to avoid the end times.

About Rudolph, it's interesting that Mab's spell heightened his fear - if that's what happened,  and I think it makes a lot of sense. Well spotted.

Mab saw Rudolph as an enemy, like Bob. Accidentally or with a very good reason?

It is probably something Mab’s enemies have in common, something about their intentions or view of the world. It is not that Mab evaluates everyone personally.

Rudolph was an enemy because he behaved like one.

[Mira]

The Einherjar will all die at Ragnarok, Uriel will still get her in the end. Maybe service for Odin counts as her term in Purgatory. Only Saints go straight to heaven and she has been naughty. Got a divorce and remarried, that is a terrible sin ... she will have to do some time 😉

About Rudolph, it's interesting that Mab's spell heightened his fear - if that's what happened,  and I think it makes a lot of sense. Well spotted.

Mab saw Rudolph as an enemy, like Bob. Accidentally or with a very good reason?

Maybe, my thought is Mab's spell could dispell pain and fear but not insanity.  Bradley was afraid, but he was able to handle it once Murphy and Butters explained it to him.  Rudolph has always been on the edge even before this happened.  If he suffers from paranoia, this would have totally pushed him off.

[Dina]

I had moved my new post about my theory of TWG to another thread, because it was derailing this one. If you are interested:
https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,53854.0.html