Battle Ground Casualties [Peace Talks Spoilers]

[morriswalters]

The Titan has an army, Harry took out the Titan BUT THAT STILL LEFT AN ARMY. I doubt the army would surrender so it would be a bloody grind eliminating them unit by unit and there would be a lot of civilian casualties. This not something Harry has faced before, it has always been take out the bad guy and game over, or the battle is away from civilians, like Raith Deeps. A victory but NOT a clean victory is on the cards.

I actually think that is where Little Chicago will come into play, and Harry will need Bob, running the mopping up operation making decisions to save a Hospital or a suburb from Fomor action, when he doesn’t have the forces to do both.

Mab has LC ver 20 and doesn't need LC Prototype 0.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

You think Mab would take something dear to Harry and make it her own against his wishes? She would not!

She would send Lea to do it. Someone fixed it for Harry when they realised what he was building, and how useful it could be in the future, with proper updating and all the bugs worked out. If I were Mab though, I would extend it to include  Demonreach and the area around the BFS Fortress. This may be where Bob comes face to face with Mab and with the White Council, the former always knew where he was and the latter never realised DuMorne had swiped him from Kemmler. Even Eb doesn’t know about Bob, which might be his undoing.

[Dina]

I think it's a stretch to say it's a reference to The Snow Queen instead of Frozen, that Harry's even familiar with the claim that Frozen is based on The Snow Queen, and/or that Harry's familiar with The Snow Queen.

What? I think Harry would be much more familiar with Snow Queen that with Frozen. And he would have thought on Snow Queen as soon as I heard of Frozen, same like I did long before watching the actual movie. The question about freezing the heart is much more in point for Snow Queen that for Frozen.

[morriswalters]

You think Mab would take something dear to Harry and make it her own against his wishes? She would not!

No I think that the next one he built would model the world and be made of crystal.

[Bad Alias]

What? I think Harry would be much more familiar with Snow Queen that with Frozen. And he would have thought on Snow Queen as soon as I heard of Frozen, same like I did long before watching the actual movie. The question about freezing the heart is much more in point for Snow Queen that for Frozen.

Mab leaned over, opened the box, and obligingly touched the ring. It immediately buzzed and the room filled with a swirl of music, as a woman’s voice sang, “The snow glows white on the mountain tonight…”
I shut the box on the sound and eyed her. It was just possible that I’d already heard that song enough to make my teeth itch.
“Now I understand,” I said drily.
“You are welcome,” she replied.
“Just out of curiosity,” I said, “is it going to be possible for her to freeze someone’s heart and turn them into an ice statue?”
Mab looked baffled. “Those are the powers in the motion picture. Should I have cheated her?”
I rubbed at the spot between my eyes. “Got it. We’ll go someplace nice and quiet to play with this gift.”

Emphasis added. It's clearly a direct reference to Frozen, Harry is clearly familiar with it, and Harry is clearly concerned about damage to third parties.

Is Harry familiar with the tails of Hans Christian Andersen? He probably should be because they fit the same time frame as the Brothers Grimm, so his stories are likely just as real in Dresden Files. The problem with assuming Harry is familiar with them is that Harry's not as familiar with a lot of things as he should be. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if Harry skipped reading a lot of fairy tales for research purposes and just asked Bob about this or that. He probably "read the cliff notes" version of a lot of the supernatural education most wizards get, so he wouldn't necessarily link one story to another just because they are vaguely similar. (Bob really is an amazing resource that probably pushed Harry ahead by years, maybe decades, of where he would have been if he'd had a more traditional wizardly education).

To say that Harry hopes Maggie will freeze emotion from his heart is stacking assumption on assumption on assumption. The last assumption contradicts at least two statements from  Christmas Eve. That's why I said:

I'm pretty sure he's being literal and just referencing the children's movie only.

[Mira]

I think it's a stretch to say it's a reference to The Snow Queen instead of Frozen, that Harry's even familiar with the claim that Frozen is based on The Snow Queen, and/or that Harry's familiar with The Snow Queen.

Maybe, maybe not, Harry also reads a lot.

[TheCuriousFan]

I'm confused, why are we talking about whether or not the ring that plays Let it Go on loop is a reference to Frozen or a reference to the Snow Queen?

[vultur]

I voted Eb, Listens-to-Wind, Rashid, Luccio, and Billy - but I'm really not particularly confident of those specific people - except Eb and maybe Luccio. My real prediction is "one or more of the Alphas, Eb and at least one other Senior Council member, and NOT Butters or Sanya" (I don't think it's time to pass another Sword).

Murphy seems almost too obvious, so I'm thinking probably not her.

Before PT I thought Eb's death was "too obvious" too (because of the 'death of the mentor' trope... also because I thought if he did die it would be right before the BAT and Harry would take up the Blackstaff) - but it really seems to have been "set up" in PT.

Thomas is "on ice" and out of the fight, so probably not him.


Harry's grief in Christmas Eve might be Eb, Luccio, plus one or more people who look up to him/he feels semi-responsible for (that's why I'm thinking one or more of the Alphas - though it could be Carlos too, or another "junior" Warden, especially if they die while operating under his orders as Regional Commander).

It's not Halloween, so I think the actual Immortal characters on the list (Sarissa, Titania, Uriel, probably the Erlking, maybe Vadderung/Odin/Kringle) are OK.

[Dina]

I'm confused, why are we talking about whether or not the ring that plays Let it Go on loop is a reference to Frozen or a reference to the Snow Queen?

We are not. The ring, as most of the conversation, is about Frozen, that is without doubt. But the specific question “is it going to be possible for her to freeze someone’s heart and turn them into an ice statue" is tricky, because Elsa makes ice statues but not freezes any hearts. That was what the Snow Queen did in the tale. And that is a story Harry should probably be more familiar than Frozen. He reads a lot and he cannot see a lot of movies  (due to his murphyonic field). When reading all that, I did not think he has seen the movie, only that he knows about it like I did long before watching it. So he thought it was based on Snow Queen. And he was right (it has been stated many times that the original idea was to make an actual Snow Queen movie, with Elsa as a villain. Only the first tests showed that everybody loved her as a secure, powerful, good character).

Anyway, I don't think this is relevant because I don't think Harry wants his own heart to be "iced", he only wants to be sure that Maggie can't hurt anyone while playing.

[ClintACK]

... because Elsa makes ice statues but not freezes any hearts.

She accidentally freezes her sister's heart, and almost kills her.

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Until the power of the True Love between the sisters saves the day. A theme that seems relevant for Mab and Titania going into Battleground, perhaps.

Anyway, I don't think this is relevant because I don't think Harry wants his own heart to be "iced", he only wants to be sure that Maggie can't hurt anyone while playing.

Yep.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Maggie’s sister is a spirit of intellect, at the worst she can get an ice cream headache in her sanctum.

Does Harry never learn?, he is setting his daughter up as a possible replacement Winter Lady in the event of Mab’s demise and Molly’s elevation to Queen by accepting the ring. Given PT events surrounding Mab you really would expect him to be more careful.

[The_Sibelis]

Murphy gonna die... Harry mentioned how she'd die to protect this city, forshadowing I'd think..

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I think Harry is going to clear the decks of some of his surviving rogues, the Genowskwa, Listen and Mavra all spring to mind, not Cowl or Nicky though, I think they have roles in the BAT build up.

Drakul may be playing for the Fomor so we may see him briefly, before he is extinguished in some satisfyingly messy way (I prefer death by Sue).

[The_Sibelis]

If he even can kill the genoska, might be better off trying to trap him on DR.

[Bad Alias]

I'm confused, why are we talking about whether or not the ring that plays Let it Go on loop is a reference to Frozen or a reference to the Snow Queen?

To fill our Dresden fix until 9/29? But actually the argument is about this:

Anyway, I don't think this is relevant because I don't think Harry wants his own heart to be "iced", he only wants to be sure that Maggie can't hurt anyone while playing.

Mira said that's what Harry wants. My point is that you have to assume that Harry is familiar with The Snow Queen, made the connection between Frozen and The Snow Queen, that Harry believes the ring that is clearly based on Frozen has powers from The Snow Queen, and then that he wants his heart to be frozen so he doesn't feel emotion.

Spoiler tags for an interview and prediction based on that interview. Based on what Jim said would be Harry's first frivolous purchase would be with his sock full of diamonds,

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a basket ball goal for "the great hall"

, I predict that

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Marcone

will die. This is probably my most unlikely prediction for a work of fiction ever.