Author Topic: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?  (Read 6956 times)

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« on: July 16, 2020, 01:43:26 AM »


   Wouldn't be the first time would it?   Finally the book arrived around one this afternoon..  I began
reading, why is it when you want peace and to be left alone, it doesn't happen?

Anyway, I haven't gotten too far, but a thought occurred to me as Harry gazed at his mangled brother.
What if his assumptions were wrong?  What if
(click to show/hide)

After I've finished this book, need to go back and check out names that are even remotely close, who do they belong to?  It could be very important in how this all comes out.

Offline forumghost

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2728
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2020, 01:49:23 AM »
Quite frankly I feel like the real twist would be if Harry's assumptions were actually on the money for a change.

Yeah, I'm 99% certain that Thomas was actually trying to tell his dimwit brother something super important and he just couldn't understand because apparently the svartalfs were either too dumb to keep the assassin in a state where they could make him talk about his employer, or didn't want him to talk about them.

Offline SpacedCowboy

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2020, 02:28:41 AM »
It’d be quite the twist if Justin comes back, Ded or not.

Offline BrianC

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2020, 02:33:50 AM »
Ive been racking my brain to try and figure out who of Harrys enemies has a name that starts with J

Offline Grifter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2020, 02:48:51 AM »
Well let's reason this Justin thing out, as I think it would require a lot of assumptions. 

1) Justin was a contemporary of Margaret's.  He might have visited and Thomas could have seen him, but he would have been young.  Depending on if DuMorne still had contact with Raith after Margaret left, Thomas could have easily been old enough to know him.

2) We also have to assume that Thomas never mentioned to Harry that he knew his abusive adoptive father, because that kind of info would have been shared with the reader as foreshadowing.

4) We have to assume Justin is good enough to enthral Thomas. We know he has experience with it, as he did it to Justine.  And Thomas seemed to be weak, so maybe he would be susceptible. We could alternately assume he blackmailed him or something, but Thomas just going with that seems unlikely.

4) We have to assume that DuMorne would expose himself to Thomas in the process, rather than keeping his identity hidden under a cowl or something. 

5) We have to assume the payoff would be worth revealing himself and revealing he was still alive.  I could see where Thomas dying in the attempt might be a safe assumption, but it seems awfully risky, because there are a ton of people in town that would be able to examine Thomas and see that he was manipulated.

Ive been racking my brain to try and figure out who of Harrys enemies has a name that starts with J
Not many.  I was looking earlier.  Really just Justin, or the Jade Court (doesn't seem like something an isolationist faction would do, unless Nemfected?), or the Genowska (sounds like J to start with), or Jenny Greenteeth (dead but maybe not?).

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2020, 08:41:55 PM »

   Wouldn't be the first time would it?   Finally the book arrived around one this afternoon..  I began
reading, why is it when you want peace and to be left alone, it doesn't happen?

Anyway, I haven't gotten too far, but a thought occurred to me as Harry gazed at his mangled brother.
What if his assumptions were wrong?  What if
(click to show/hide)

After I've finished this book, need to go back and check out names that are even remotely close, who do they belong to?  It could be very important in how this all comes out.
I think either you're right or he was warning Harry about Justine, not asking Harry to protect her.

4) We have to assume Justin is good enough to enthral Thomas. We know he has experience with it, as he did it to Justine.
Do you mean Justin enthralled Elaine?


Offline Grifter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2020, 09:02:10 PM »
Do you mean Justin enthralled Elaine?
Oops, yup.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2020, 09:18:36 PM »
Quote
Quote from: BrianC on Today at 02:33:50 AM

    Ive been racking my brain to try and figure out who of Harrys enemies has a name that starts with J

Not many.  I was looking earlier.  Really just Justin, or the Jade Court (doesn't seem like something an isolationist faction would do, unless Nemfected?), or the Genowska (sounds like J to start with), or Jenny Greenteeth (dead but maybe not?).


   True, but he also threw in an   "S" 
Quote
"Junghg.S'Jnngh.

  There is no "S" in Justine's name.  What happened to Skavis?  He was in White Night, have to go back and check out Blood Rites as well.  There are also assorted Outsiders that might have a name close to how that sounds. 


Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2020, 09:21:39 PM »
There is quite literally an "s" in Justine.  ???
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2020, 09:28:26 PM »
There is quite literally an "s" in Justine.  ???

But it doesn't begin with "s" does it?  S'Junngh?  Does that even remotely sound like Justine? More
like Sungh or something similar.

Offline Grifter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2020, 09:34:19 PM »
But it doesn't begin with "s" does it?  S'Junngh?  Does that even remotely sound like Justine? More
like Sungh or something similar.
The "S'" might have been a slur.  Or he might have segmented the name into two exhalations because he couldn't speak "Juh. Stine"

Or he was trying to say another name.

Offline Second Aristh

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3819
  • Numeromancer
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2020, 09:35:52 PM »
Yeah, I think it's probably relevant that Thomas couldn't speak, but I don't think we can divine anything particular from his slurring attempts.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline ClintACK

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1940
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2020, 12:14:36 AM »
Re: "Junghg. S'Jnngh."

I translated this as: "Justine. It's Justine."

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24052
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2020, 01:15:51 AM »
Re: "Junghg. S'Jnngh."

I translated this as: "Justine. It's Justine."

I think it is way too obvious... 

Offline Grifter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 175
    • View Profile
Re: What if Harry's Assumptions are Wrong?
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2020, 01:40:02 AM »
Re: "Junghg. S'Jnngh."
Or... Just off the cuff...

"Jotun. It's Jotun." Or "Giant. It's Giant."

Maybe Thomas found out about Ethniu via overhearing a plot against Etri, and rushed to warn him, and didn't make it in time and ended up in a misunderstanding.

As to how, maybe he noticed the footprint in the sand, too, and didn't just ignore it like Harry did.  Maybe he investigated after the Eb encounter, and then didn't have time to contact Harry before the attack was going to commence.

(As for Ethniu not actually being a Jotun, it seems like Butcher might be equating Titans, Fomor, and Jotun as giants)