Author Topic: "Job placement" microfiction  (Read 17304 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #90 on: May 25, 2020, 03:04:13 AM »
I don't think we know enough to know if Peabody "needed" his ink, or if the ink just made his magic harder-to-detect (and thus less risky, more pervasive), or what the exact mechanisms were.

Harry dismissively labeled Peabody a "bureaucromancer," and I think in some ways that isn't far off, and ink is a central feature of his magic.  In the SummerKnight bit quoted above, Peabody appears to have used magical ink on himself.  Presumably, a different kind of ink, but still ...

Eb believes the theory and along with Ramirez finds evidence and testifies to it in court.

page 386 Turn Coat

Quote
"Working on the evidence Dresden found," Ebenezer said, "Warden Ramirez and I searched Peabody's chambers thoroughly not twenty minutes ago.  A test of the inks he used to attain the signatures of the Senior Council for various authorizations revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects.  It is my belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council, and that it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright."

There is your evidence.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 03:22:52 AM by Mira »

Offline g33k

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #91 on: May 25, 2020, 05:50:24 AM »
Eb believes the theory and along with Ramirez finds evidence and testifies to it in court.

page 386 Turn Coat

There is your evidence.

No, only that he uses the ink; not that he "needs" it.

Harry doesn't "need" his staff, or his blasting rod, or his shield bracelet, or his force rings, etc etc etc.

But he uses them, nonetheless!
 
We just don't know enough about Peabody; but I suspect it's something similar -- he uses the ink to enhance or leverage or hide or ... (???) his magic.  Maybe to serve more than one purpose!

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #92 on: May 25, 2020, 11:24:07 AM »
No, only that he uses the ink; not that he "needs" it.

Harry doesn't "need" his staff, or his blasting rod, or his shield bracelet, or his force rings, etc etc etc.

But he uses them, nonetheless!
 
We just don't know enough about Peabody; but I suspect it's something similar -- he uses the ink to enhance or leverage or hide or ... (???) his magic.  Maybe to serve more than one purpose!
   I think you are totally missing the point here of what Eb was saying.   Does Peabody need to use the ink to get inside of minds?  He is a fully qualified wizard, secretary to the Senior Council, that means he has skills.   A surgeon has the skill to take out a liver without anesthesia,  but the patient would be very aware that he was doing it.   That is the whole point of the ink, "revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects."     

  Peabody screwed with the minds of fully qualified wizards, like the patient under the knife getting his liver removed without anesthesia, he'd know it was happening ..  If someone is trying to manipulate a full wizard's brain, they know it..   Doing that kind of thing is forbidden, punishable by death.   So just as anesthesia makes the surgeon's job a lot easier if the patient is asleep while he removes the liver, the ink numbed the brains of his fellow wizards enough that they weren't unaware that Peabody was tip toeing in their heads, making it easier and safer for him. 

Repeat, it wasn't ordinary ink that was found in Peabody's room, it was ink " revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects."   It really doesn't matter whether or not he needed it, the whole point is he used it.   Could he have manipulated their brains without it?  Yeah, he is a full wizard, he could, but at great risk of detection..  The use of the ink eliminated that risk.. 

So on the academic question on whether or not Peabody needed the ink to pull off mental manipulation of his fellow wizards?  No, any qualified wizard could do that.

However on the question of whether or not he could carry it on for years without the anesthesia of
the ink compromising the free will and awareness of his subjects?  No, he needed the ink..  Like liver
surgery, if the patient is awake, they know what is happening.   

As Eb said, " It is my belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council, and that it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright."

Yeah, the ink's sole purpose was to hide and leverage his magic..  And yeah, he needed it, maybe not so much on the youngsters, but on the decision makers, he couldn't pulled it off without it.   
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 01:47:12 PM by Mira »

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #93 on: May 25, 2020, 05:53:22 PM »
I don't think there is any direct evidence that the ink is anesthesia. There is evidence that Peabody needed the ink to use mind magic on a young warden. He was unwilling to use evocation mind magic on Harry when no one was around even when he was in panic mode, if we believe Murphy's theory. Everything was falling apart. The walls were closing in. There wasn't just a slight risk of detection.

So that leads to the conclusion that the ink was necessary succeed, either because he couldn't mind bend Harry without it, or he couldn't mind bend Harry without it before being detected and stopped.

Now Harry isn't your average wizard. Harry's mind is a natural fortress. It could be that Peabody probed Harry's mind and found out about his natural mental toughness. Or it could be that he needed the ink for any wizard.

I think the explanation that Peabody needed the ink more plausible. But we really only know three things. The ink is for mind control. The ink was used on the Senior Council. Peabody didn't mind control Harry without the ink when they were alone.

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2020, 06:22:44 PM »
Quote

I think the explanation that Peabody needed the ink more plausible. But we really only know three things. The ink is for mind control. The ink was used on the Senior Council. Peabody didn't mind control Harry without the ink when they were alone.

Harry never signed anything that Peabody wanted him to sign.   So no contact with ink, no mind control..

Quote
I don't think there is any direct evidence that the ink is anesthesia. There is evidence that Peabody needed the ink to use mind magic on a young warden. He was unwilling to use evocation mind magic on Harry when no one was around even when he was in panic mode, if we believe Murphy's theory. Everything was falling apart. The walls were closing in. There wasn't just a slight risk of detection.

Evidence is Peabody was messing with wizard minds for a decade or more, that is why the Senior Council needed to revisit all of the decisions it made in that time.  How is it possible that none of these senior wizards had any clue that they were being mentally manipulated?  Um, the ink is your answer, " revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects."    No, he didn't put his subjects to sleep, but it numbed the senses just enough to leave them open to suggestion and they had no clue that it was going on... 
Quote
Now Harry isn't your average wizard. Harry's mind is a natural fortress. It could be that Peabody probed Harry's mind and found out about his natural mental toughness. Or it could be that he needed the ink for any wizard.
If Peabody had probed Harry's mind first, Harry would have known it.  I doubt that Peabody touched any wizard's mind until he softened up their resistance and awareness first with his magic ink.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 06:24:26 PM by Mira »

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2020, 07:13:43 PM »
Evidence is Peabody was messing with wizard minds for a decade or more

...

If Peabody had probed Harry's mind first, Harry would have known it.
That's not evidence that it's anesthesia. Not even a little bit.

Not if the probing was passive.

I doubt that Peabody touched any wizard's mind until he softened up their resistance and awareness first with his magic ink.
Emphasis added. Exactly. You don't know. You strongly believe. I even agree that Peabody probably used ink on everyone. But we don't know that or how the ink worked. It's silly to pretend that you know one way or the other.

Offline Mira

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2020, 09:10:40 PM »
That's not evidence that it's anesthesia. Not even a little bit.

Not if the probing was passive.
Emphasis added. Exactly. You don't know. You strongly believe. I even agree that Peabody probably used ink on everyone. But we don't know that or how the ink worked. It's silly to pretend that you know one way or the other.

  Eb, Turn Coat

Quote
"Warden Ramirez and I searched Peabody's chambers thoroughly not twenty minutes ago.  A test of the inks he used to attain the signatures of the Senior Council for various authorizations revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects.  It is my belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council, and that it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright."
Um, the ink contained known substances used to assist in psychic manipulation.. That is pretty good evidence... 

Quote
That's not evidence that it's anesthesia. Not even a little bit.

Not if the probing was passive.

The probing wasn't passive...  Consider what he did to Luccio's mind, that wasn't passive.  He influenced to the point where all decisions made for the last ten years or more have to be reconsidered, that is hardly passive... 

Yeah, if the mind can be dulled to the point where it doesn't know it's being probed, that is anesthesia..  Novocaine is a local anesthesia, one doesn't have to be knocked out.  The mind was numbed, defenses lowered so he could probe and influence, I'd call that good evidence of anesthesia like properties.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« Reply #97 on: May 26, 2020, 08:27:18 PM »
Um, the ink contained known substances used to assist in psychic manipulation..

... 

The probing wasn't passive...  Consider what he did to Luccio's mind, that wasn't passive.  He influenced to the point where all decisions made for the last ten years or more have to be reconsidered, that is hardly passive... 

Yeah, if the mind can be dulled to the point where it doesn't know it's being probed, that is anesthesia..  Novocaine is a local anesthesia, one doesn't have to be knocked out.  The mind was numbed, defenses lowered so he could probe and influence, I'd call that good evidence of anesthesia like properties.
That's evidence that it allows or helps mind manipulation. It doesn't say how it helps. If it numbs the mind, I'd imagine it would be described as similar to the thing we've seen that do that. Mind fogs.

Probing: inquiring closely into something; searching. Probing isn't manipulating.

The reason they don't know their minds were manipulated is because their minds were manipulated. Not necessarily because the manipulation was undetected at the time it was being manipulated.