Author Topic: Question about Small Favor  (Read 321 times)

Offline didymos

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Question about Small Favor
« on: March 02, 2020, 01:01:41 AM »
So Mab says this:

Quote
“When one Court moves, the other perforce moves with it,” Mab said.
I croaked, “Titania wants Marcone dead?”
“Put simply,” she replied. “And her Emissary will continue to seek your death. Only by finding and saving the Baron’s life will you preserve your own.”

Butcher, Jim. Small Favor (The Dresden Files, Book 10) (p. 47). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Were the Gruffs collectively "her Emissary"?  Seems weird to use the singular if so.  Or was it Eldest Gruff and he just called on his bros for assistance?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 01:07:32 AM by didymos »

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2020, 01:28:56 AM »
Nicodemus was the Emissary for Titania.

Offline didymos

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2020, 01:31:43 AM »
Nicodemus was the Emissary for Titania.

Where was that stated?

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2020, 01:45:07 AM »
Where was that stated?

It wasn't. I think the gruffs plural were Titania's emissary, but Mab might not have been aware her sister named an entire clan of her soldiers when she used the singular 'emissary', although the whole arrangement is a bit odd.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2020, 02:45:59 AM »
It isn't stated.  And you can call the Gruff's the Emissary if you want. What exactly would that make Nic?

Offline didymos

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2020, 02:50:28 AM »
It isn't stated.  And you can call the Gruff's the Emissary if you want. What exactly would that make Nic?

An independent party pursuing his own agenda.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2020, 03:55:23 AM »
Then why could the Gruff's attack Harry?

The whole purpose of the Knight's, in Jim's mythology, is to do what the Queen's can't, which is kill humans unconnected to the Court.  Mab can't order the Gruff's to kill Harry outright.

Offline didymos

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2020, 04:12:53 AM »
Then why could the Gruff's attack Harry?

The whole purpose of the Knight's, in Jim's mythology, is to do what the Queen's can't, which is kill humans unconnected to the Court.  Mab can't order the Gruff's to kill Harry outright.

Titania.  And it was because Mab had chosen Harry as Emissary, from what I understand.  She just hadn't told him yet:

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For example: Mab had said that Summer’s hit men were after me because Mab had chosen me to be her Emissary. But for that to be true, she had to have done it hours ago, at least a little while before the first crew of gruffs had attacked me at the Carpenter place.

Butcher, Jim. Small Favor (The Dresden Files, Book 10) (p. 62). Penguin Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.


Offline morriswalters

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 04:43:15 AM »
Yes. But if Nic isn't acting for Titania then it doesn't matter, Harry can kill Nic at will and Titania can't do a thing to interfere.

Offline didymos

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2020, 04:48:12 AM »
Yes. But if Nic isn't acting for Titania then it doesn't matter, Harry can kill Nic at will and Titania can't do a thing to interfere.

Um...yeah?

ETA: OK, I see what you're getting at now.  Titania could move because Mab did in choosing Harry as Emissary.  Summer has to move to counter that.  That Nic is involved is incidental to Titania.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 05:03:36 AM by didymos »

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2020, 04:59:13 AM »
The Queens can't personally (directly) kill someone not in their Court. The Knights are the only ones who are "allowed to act in affairs not directly related to the Sidhe." Harry is directly related to Sidhe affairs because he made "an open-ended bargain without even trying to trade a baby." That's why the Gruffs can go after him.

All quotes are from Bob's explanation of the Faerie Courts in Summer Knight.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2020, 07:28:33 AM »
@morriswalters
Are you suggesting that Titania had some kind of parley with Nic/ Anduriel to set up the events of SmF? Or that Nic was her cat’s paw? Because I find both those notions to be equally unlikely. Mab as the instigator of the plot makes much sense.

I think that Titania saw Mab making a play that would involve Harry, so she mobilized the Gruffs to waylay him without caring about the consequences of her actions (as she more or less says to Harry in CD)

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2020, 11:17:14 AM »
Quote
I croaked, “Titania wants Marcone dead?”
I don't see how it could be any clearer.  But if you insist.
Quote
“Why?” I asked him. “Why would Summer want Marcone taken by the Denarians? Why would Summer want the Archive under their control?”
The gruff only stared at me for a long moment, but when he spoke I could have sworn that his voice sounded pensive. Maybe even troubled. “It is not my place to know such things—or to ask.”
Titania wanted Harry dead.
Quote
“But it’s over,” I said. “Marcone is already free. So’s Ivy.”
“But thou art still here, upon the field of conflict,” the gruff said gently. “As am I. And so the matter is not closed.
Titania is crazy with grief and doesn't care what happens to the Archive or Marcone or to anything else. And so she tells Harry in Cold Days. And once he leaves the island it ends.

This arc starts in Summer Knight with the death of Aurora.  Continues in Dead Beat with Marcone saving Harry in the alley. White Knight with Marcone becoming a Signatory, and finally ends in Small Favor.

Edit
this is very confusing having two similar conversations at once.

I see the Fae Courts differently, evidently, than most of the people here.  To me they are modeled loosely after the Russians and the Americans and the Cold War.  In that kind of context the behavior of the Queens in  Small Favor make perfect sense.  The attempt to suborn the Archive and to kill Marcone is a proxy war.  The goal is not directly connected to the direct conflict, killing Marcone and taking the Archive.  The point is to take revenge on Harry, Mab's Emissary in the matter of Aurora's death.  Jim blows smoke by distracting you with an ever increasingly large set of Gruff's until ending with a diminutive Eldest Gruff. And a sideshow about Mab taking Harry fire magic.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 11:22:35 AM by morriswalters »

Offline Mira

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2020, 12:44:31 PM »
Yes. But if Nic isn't acting for Titania then it doesn't matter, Harry can kill Nic at will and Titania can't do a thing to interfere.

  Not really, if I remember correctly there is a little matter of the noose he wears around his neck.

That is the key to killing him, Harry had gotten hold of it twice in their fights and gotten close, but no cigar.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Question about Small Favor
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2020, 01:19:07 PM »
That is used purely for illustration of the point and does not literally mean that Harry can kill Nic.  It means that without the connection, any beef involving Harry and Nic is their business alone.  I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.