Author Topic: Morgan Micro Fiction  (Read 51152 times)

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2020, 11:36:58 AM »
There is no indication he loved Maggie. And he treats Harry like an unexploded bomb.

Offline Mira

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2020, 11:44:28 AM »
   Since Margaret supposedly was under a death sentence herself because of her crimes.. Why would Morgan promise to take care of her child?  Why didn't he make himself known to Malcolm as their protector?  Why was the child Harry so difficult to trace until Justin came on the scene and adopted him?  Given everything that surrounded Margaret's death, why didn't he look into Malcolm's more closely?

Is Nemesis no more than Lord Voldermort?  It that must not be named?  Because remember the scene when Titania whispered it to Harry?  No one has mentioned it since, even in the Winter Court it is only vaguely referred to as "the Enemy."  It has never been mentioned by wizards before.  Rashid has this huge "tool" of an eye for spotting the Enemy, uses it at the Gates, why isn't he screening everyone on the Council?  What is more why did he imply to Harry in Cold Days that the Senior Council really doesn't know what his job is as Gatekeeper.  If Morgan thought that Harry was truly infected, why didn't he just give him the chop when he was under the Doom?  Why did he not think that perhaps that it was impossible for even the Blackstaff to kill his own grandson?  He also knew very well that Luccio had murdered LaFortier, he covered for her and that is why they were after him in Turn Coat.  Also he was instantly on the run when that happened, so when did he have time to make a journal entry?

 On a lot of levels while sensational, none of it makes any sense..
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 02:25:47 PM by Mira »

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2020, 02:08:13 PM »
@Yuillegan
Well I did some digging, Luccio was Morgan's Master. It was when he fell in love with her.
Quote from: Turn Coat
“You,” I asked, “and Morgan?”
She was quiet for a moment before she said, “I never allowed it to happen. It wasn’t fair to him.”
“But he wanted it anyway,” I said.
She nodded.
“Hell’s bells,” I sighed.
She folded her arms over her stomach, never looking up. “Was it any different with your apprentice, Harry?”
Now for this passage from Morgans Journal.
Quote
I haven’t kept this journal since my seventies. I only started it because I thought it would make a good impression on Anastasia, who I presume will be reading this entry.

I will spare you the schoolboy platitudes, my teacher. My old friend. Though you have never said it, I have always known that you have always known my heart.
Rereading this I'm assuming that he speaks of two  people, the Anastasia that was, when he was an apprentice, and Luccio the women he knows today, who is in a different body.  It's making me craaaazy.

   Since Margaret supposedly was under sentence herself because of her crimes.. Why would Morgan promise to take care of her child?
Because Harry was born to be a weapon, and it's why the Council fears him.  This is established in Summer Knight when Martha Liberty tells Eb "you know what he was meant to be".

But if it's your gun, then you can use it.  This would be sufficient context for keeping Harry alive.  That and his Grandfather has carte-blanche to murder you if you try to kill his grandson. And one thought cascades to another.  Sean Connery as Eb. :D

Offline Mira

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2020, 02:49:50 PM »
Quote
Rereading this I'm assuming that he speaks of two  people, the Anastasia that was, when he was an apprentice, and Luccio the women he knows today, who is in a different body.  It's making me craaaazy.

   He whole mind about her is clouded by his love for her, as Rashid pointed out he wore his heart on his sleeve about her for years.  Her changing bodies isn't going to change his feelings for her, perhaps allow him to make excuses for her [he didn't know about the ink] but not change his feelings. 
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Because Harry was born to be a weapon, and it's why the Council fears him.  This is established in Summer Knight when Martha Liberty tells Eb "you know what he was meant to be".
Yes, that line makes more sense now.  However by the same token if the Council knew that Harry was born to be a weapon, how come they totally dropped the ball from his birth to Justin's death and his arrest... Further, why even bother with a trial? 
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But if it's your gun, then you can use it.  This would be sufficient context for keeping Harry alive.  That and his Grandfather has carte-blanche to murder you if you try to kill his grandson. And one thought cascades to another.  Sean Connery as Eb.
Or not,  guard dogs can turn on their master..  I've gotten the impression that few on the Council even knew that Margaret was Eb's daughter and even fewer outside of Rashid, knew that Harry was his grandson..  Martha Liberty's line suggests that she didn't know the truth..

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2020, 06:44:04 PM »
To be clear, when I speak of two Anastasia's I'm pointing out a writers device, where one character is treated as two, in this case the love he couldn't have, and the friend she became. And since I believe Jim is devious, I believe it is an attempt at obfuscation.


Online g33k

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2020, 06:53:17 PM »
...
Now, if Jim ever shows a flashback where a giant man on a motorcycle approaches Harry at the orphanage and tells him "Yer a Wizard, 'arry!"....  ;D

Strength of a River in his Shoulders will be riding a prehistoric species of Elk, still dwelling in the deep Nevernever reaches of Arcadia.

And he won't be speaking in a broad "West Country" accent.

Otherwise... you nailed it.

Offline Mira

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2020, 07:04:24 PM »
To be clear, when I speak of two Anastasia's I'm pointing out a writers device, where one character is treated as two, in this case the love he couldn't have, and the friend she became. And since I believe Jim is devious, I believe it is an attempt at obfuscation.

   My point is Morgan took the fall for her,  didn't matter which body, past love or present friendship.
Rashid pointed to her personality shift which led to her affair with Harry, but Rashid was more inclined to blame that on the ink than the body change..  Also the way Harry said that Morgan loved Luccio, implied his feelings for her hadn't changed even if she never let him come close. So in
terms of her body change, I don't think plot device applies here.  Though back when she and Harry were an item, she used her new younger body as an excuse for her reawakened desire for sex.  Sadly for Harry in Turn Coat we find out it was the ink after all.

Online g33k

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2020, 07:09:25 PM »
... And you know what I am thinking? Ivy knows what Morgan wrote. So, what if she is becoming wary of Dresden herself? Or, on the other hand, why if she decides to try to help in some subtle ways ...

I'm pretty sure Ivy has Harry firmly pegged as "maybe at risk, but one of the good guys."

She'll have seen Morgan write it, but she'll remember all Harry's history of Doing the Right Thing (she she also knows what's written on Harry's gravestone, after all; and all of Susan's articles, research notes, reports to higher-ups in St.Giles, the records of the Red Court & the ritual they were performing (that Harry turned back on them) etc etc etc).

Above all, she'll know that when she was in deadly danger, Harry risked everything to save her, which speaks on a deeper level than any writing... even if you're The Archive, you're still a little girl, and Harry saved her.

She knows how much the Bad Guys like to sow FUD as a tactic, even a major strategy.

She'll recognize Morgan as a victim of exactly that.
 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 07:15:14 PM by g33k »

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2020, 08:09:48 PM »
   Since Margaret supposedly was under a death sentence herself because of her crimes ...

Wait... WAS she?

She was certainly pushing the boundaries, linedancing at the edges of the Laws, trying to get the WC to revisit and revise their Laws, seeking more "social justice" and protection for mortals, general activism and interventionism by the WC.

We know she was on the Warden's "watchlist."

But I didn't think she had ever been convicted of Lawbreaking, or gotten any death sentence (at least, not from the WC) ... ?  Being on a watchlist is VERY different than being under a death sentence!

... Why was the child Harry so difficult to trace until Justin came on the scene and adopted him?

Presumably, because Justin was behind the act of hiding Harry.

...  Given everything that surrounded Margaret's death, why didn't he look into Malcolm's more closely? ...

I presume he looked into the matter as closely as he could.  He was "on mission" when Malcom died, there was likely at least one Sunrise to wash away magical traces.

But above all -- he was a working Warden:  a cop.  Like Murphy was.  And (like Murphy was) he was subject to oversight.  While Luccio may have sympathized/protected him, he already knew an "enemy" had "invaded the Senior Council itself."

So Morgan's investigation & action was limited (like Murphy's was) by what he could get away with, given an "enemy" who had such oversight.

... If Morgan thought that Harry was truly infected, why didn't he just give him the chop when he was under the Doom? ...

Morgan didn't think Harry is infected.

Morgan feared Harry might be infected.

Morgan was "stress testing" Harry, trying to see if Harry showed signs of using Black Magic or being Nemfected, trying to force Harry into needing to use the shortcuts-to-power those represent, the weakness of character they display.

I think Morgan would have been... more comfortable? ... if he could have proven Harry to be a BlackHat.  Far better, for brawler-type wizards like Morgan (and Harry (and Eb)) to face a clear opponent upon whom you can unleash all your powers, than to have a viper slithering 'round in your own nest!

But in the end, Morgan couldn't quite bring himself to execute a child (and then a very-young man) who kept showing he DID have the self-restraint to avoid using black magic, every time he got pushed or tempted that direction.

... He also knew very well that Luccio had murdered LaFortier, he covered for her and that is why they were after him in Turn Coat.  Also he was instantly on the run when that happened, so when did he have time to make a journal entry? ...

Actually, he knew Luccio didn't kill LaFortier.  He knew that Luccio was somebody's tool, a mind-thrall used to kill LaFortier... in other words, just another victim (but one custom-made to take the fall, and to disrupt the WC).

It's an interesting parallel to how Toot & "the Za Lord's Guard" were also "just tools" and bore no animus for killing Summer Lady Aurora.  Titania's wrath was wholly-reserved for Harry (she could have off'ed the little faeries in a heartbeat, if she had wanted to).

But even "on the run," Morgan would have had moments of downtime, periods where he was bandaging, eating, drinking, resting, etc.  He was using the Summer Boon to be safe from all scrying, after all.  And he evidently thought that his thoughts and conclusions on "the Dresden Situation" were of tactical or strategic importance to Luccio and any other allies, so it was a priority to get them down in writing (all too likely he'd die being captured!).
 

Offline Dina

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2020, 08:17:41 PM »
@g33k The point is not Harry's heart. He could be a good person and still become something terrible against his will. Remember Harry himself dreads that. It could be that becoming a Destroyer has nothing to do with him as a person but only with the circumstances of his birth, and it could be triggered for anything. And also, Nemesis can infect good people, like Lily. So it is not a problem of what Ivy knows about Harry being a good man but about what he could become. In a way, Harry is still under a Doom of Damocles  :P

There is no indication he loved Maggie. And he treats Harry like an unexploded bomb.

Really? I totally understood that from the letter.

Or another topic, I always wondered about Morgan dying curse. For me, it made no sense that he, a warrior, a warden, did not use it against his enemies. Perhaps he was so focused on writing the journal that he weakened himself too much and couldn't gather enough power for that. Or he did something else with it, like protecting Luccio somehow.
Missing you, Md 

There are many horrible sights in the multiverse. Somehow, though, to a soul attuned to the subtle rhythms of a library, there are few worse sights than a hole where a book ought to be. Someone has stolen a book (Terry Pratchett)

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2020, 08:58:50 PM »
... Really? I totally understood that from the letter ...
We don't get very MUCH Morgan/Maggie from the letter.  He seems to have held her in somewhat higher regard than many others did... he didn't call her "LeFey" or a "warlock" or any other disparaging term; OTOH, he did call her by the full/formal "Margaret" rather than "Maggie" or another familiar shortening.  He held her in high-enough regard to promise to protect her child (and how and when did she get him to promise that???!?  Was it a dying request?  A bargain from earlier?  Or, yes, a promise to a beloved?  We really don't know... ) .

But the "in love with Harry's Mom" parallel to Snape & Lily... that isn't really shown, IMHO.  She's only named once (and he says nothing about failing to protect her!).  Most of the letter is about the strategic Big Picture, and Harry's potential role in it. 

Morgan mentions nothing about Lord Raith, who fathered Thomas with her; nor about Malcom, who fathered Harry (in contrast to Snape, who seemed obsessed with James Potter).  Morgan was (intentionally) stress-testing Harry, trying to see if he'd show hidden signs of Nemesis or Black Magic.  Snape was (without even seeming to realize it) taking his hatred & resentment of James out on Harry.

I /do/ see some parallels, but I don't see that one, the "in love with Harry's mother."  Or at least, I don't see it as "demonstrated" or "clear," it's simply... not given any spotlight in either direction.

Offline Mira

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2020, 09:16:44 PM »
Quote
Actually, he knew Luccio didn't kill LaFortier.  He knew that Luccio was somebody's tool, a mind-thrall used to kill LaFortier... in other words, just another victim (but one custom-made to take the fall, and to disrupt the WC).

But that isn't the point,  whether or not Luccio was being used as a tool is beside the point, the knife
was in her hand when it was plunged into LaFortier's body, she still was going to die for it.. So Morgan took the fall for her..  Because he loves her he still doesn't accept that she killed him, he just won't believe his lying eyes.  Perhaps she cannot be held responsible because of the ink, but she still did it.
Quote
I presume he looked into the matter as closely as he could.  He was "on mission" when Malcom died, there was likely at least one Sunrise to wash away magical traces.

He isn't the only warden, he could have handed off guard duty to another..
Quote
We know she was on the Warden's "watchlist."

But I didn't think she had ever been convicted of Lawbreaking, or gotten any death sentence (at least, not from the WC) ... ?  Being on a watchlist is VERY different than being under a death sentence!

I'm pretty sure she was under a death sentence,  it was no secret that she had broken several of the laws to warrant it.
Quote
Morgan didn't think Harry is infected.

Morgan feared Harry might be infected.

Based on what?  His vast experience with infected people/creatures?  Jim is pulling this from out of thin air, because with the exception of Rashid, nobody on the Council seems to know what it is or that it even exists.  Rashid said as much in Cold Days.
Quote
But in the end, Morgan couldn't quite bring himself to execute a child (and then a very-young man) who kept showing he DID have the self-restraint to avoid using black magic, every time he got pushed or tempted that direction.
Someone innocent you mean...  Morgan didn't have a problem lopping off heads of young people, the Korean Kid, he was about to lop off Molly's head on the Merlin's command.
Quote
But even "on the run," Morgan would have had moments of downtime, periods where he was bandaging, eating, drinking, resting, etc.  He was using the Summer Boon to be safe from all scrying, after all.  And he evidently thought that his thoughts and conclusions on "the Dresden Situation" were of tactical or strategic importance to Luccio and any other allies, so it was a priority to get them down in writing (all too likely he'd die being captured!).

I don't buy that, he was in pretty bad shape by the time he showed up at Harry's place and worse by the time they got to Demonreach..  I seriously doubt he was allowed to write down his thoughts just prior to the trial either.  Anyway, not much that he wrote down would have been much use to Luccio,  none of it would have been anything she didn't know already in one form or another.  She had already made her own judgement of Harry, she made him a warden..
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We don't get very MUCH Morgan/Maggie from the letter.  He seems to have held her in somewhat higher regard than many others did... he didn't call her "LeFey" or a "warlock" or any other disparaging term; OTOH, he did call her by the full/formal "Margaret" rather than "Maggie" or another familiar shortening.  He held her in high-enough regard to promise to protect her child (and how and when did she get him to promise that???!?  Was it a dying request?  A bargain from earlier?  Or, yes, a promise to a beloved?  We really don't know... ) .
This just doesn't make any sense to me based on whats in all of the books..  Rashid makes sense
he traveled the Ways with Margaret, he was friends with Eb, as is Listens to Wind, both have made
an effort to look out for Harry, not Morgan..  His last last words to Harry were he went to him because he know what it was like to be an innocent man hounded by law.. Closest thing according to Harry that he ever came to an apology...  Nothing about a promise to his mother, you'd think that be important last words from Morgan to Harry..
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Morgan mentions nothing about Lord Raith, who fathered Thomas with her; nor about Malcom, who fathered Harry (in contrast to Snape, who seemed obsessed with James Potter).  Morgan was (intentionally) stress-testing Harry, trying to see if he'd show hidden signs of Nemesis or Black Magic.  Snape was (without even seeming to realize it) taking his hatred & resentment of James out on Harry.
Nothing about stress testing him because he feared that Harry was infected.. You'd think that might
be important as part of his dying words.. Because if Morgan thought it, others would as well.. 

Online g33k

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2020, 09:51:59 PM »
@g33k The point is not Harry's heart. He could be a good person and still become something terrible against his will. Remember Harry himself dreads that... So it is not a problem of what Ivy knows about Harry being a good man but about what he could become ...

The thing is, Harry has shown an extraordinary degree of stubbornness about this sort of thing.  Lash testified that it was unique.  Nic (and Anduriel!!!?!) both expected the Shadow to still be inside Harry, ready to immobilize him at a word.  Even if she had been there, I think Lash wouldn't have:  she was Harry's friend Lash, and no longer Lasciel's Shadow.

At the Shedd, Ivy witnessed him penetrate the Denarian plot, call a warning, and fight against ALL the Denarians (when he knew he'd be overmatched)... and then come back to fight another round, and rescue her.

Cold calculation as an Archive (of Harry-the-potential-Destroyer) may be at war with Ivy-the-girl (who experiences Harry as warm, kind, heroic beyond all expectations, and persistently able to resist both tempting lures and vast coercive pressures to turn to the Dark Side).
 
It's now well after Morgan wrote that entry, of course, but the theme persists...

I think Mab is an active and knowing participant, intentionally tempering Harry to resist "becoming" something terrible against his own will.  Where Harry perceives her as trying to bend him to her will, turn him "into a thug" (and he feels the need to show her "why he isn't one" and "why she shouldn't do it") and keeps throwing Hot&Sexy babes at him, placing him in situations to tempt him into rage, lust, other darkling Winter passions... what she's actually doing is tempering him, making him more and more able to resist being turned into something he would despair being.

She wants him to be terrible, yes; but within the limits of his own will.  Terrible, but also terribly self-controlled.
 

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2020, 10:08:27 PM »
Well when your bleeding out you may not get to everything that might be on your to do list.  And unless I miss my guess love had nothing to do with his promise to Maggie.  I think she cut a deal. Something for something.

If you know who the journal is aimed at it will tell you what everyone knew.  It appears that the Council knew some things but not others.  They knew what Justin was doing but it appears they didn't know until after the fact, when Harry killed Justin.  However we know that Eb had at least seen Malcolm and his grandson.  I'm currently thinking that the we is Eb and Morgan and maybe Rashid.

Then there is that oddball entry in the official timeline.  What did Maggie and Malcolm go to DC for.  So many possible wags and so little data.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2020, 10:39:47 PM »
Quote
I will spare you the schoolboy platitudes, my teacher. My old friend. Though you have never said it, I have always known that you have always known my heart.
I'm pretty sure this is directed to Luccio. And my interpretation is that "we" is definitely Morgan and Luccio, but probably Morgan, Luccio, and others.

I've always thought that Morgan's insistence that there is no Black Council was upholding the party line just like the Merlin does after Morgan's death that there is no rogue element of the White Council operating in the shadows.

Harry knows very little about Nemesis. Lily and Harry believed a mortal could be infected. All this does is add Morgan and "we" to the pool of people probably believe mortals can be infected. It's very likely that Morgan and "we" know a good deal more about Nemesis than Harry and maybe more than Lily did. For example, Morgan, etc. could know that black magic corruption and Nemesis are the same thing, as some here have theorized.
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From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.
As has been pointed out, this only shows that Morgan believed that Harry could have been under the influence of Nemesis; it does not show that Morgan believes Harry could have been infected. All that said, the only evidence we've seen that indicates mortals can't be infected is that Nemesis gives fairies mortal abilities.

I agree that they weren't scared that Harry was a warlock. They were scared he was a Destroyer, which I'm willing to say is something much worse.

Rereading this I'm assuming that he speaks of two  people, the Anastasia that was, when he was an apprentice, and Luccio the women he knows today, who is in a different body.  It's making me craaaazy.
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I am losing blood and my thoughts wander.
He's not being entirely coherent. He's talking to himself, and then starts addressing Anastasia directly. Or at least that's my read.

Ivy's also read all of Harry's journals. She knows that Uriel is impressed with him. I can't imagine a much better recommendation.

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She [Margaret] was guilty of violating the First law, among other ... . The Wardens were under orders to arrest her on sight. ... I had orders regarding her as well.
Blood Rites Ch. 35. She hadn't been tried yet, but Eb said she would have been executed if caught. After Harry asks "What happened?" Eb goes into her meeting Justin and her death.

While Luccio may have sympathized/protected him, he already knew an "enemy" had "invaded the Senior Council itself."
I don't think we can time stamp that to when Harry disappeared.

@Dina: The journal entry is clearly written before Turn Coat.

@Mira: What makes you say "nobody on the Council seems to know what it [Nemesis] is or that it even exists.  Rashid said as much in Cold Days." Morgan and "we" clearly know.