Author Topic: Denarian Shadows  (Read 16565 times)

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: Denarian Shadows
« Reply #60 on: January 06, 2020, 05:29:35 PM »
I think that Hannah's (not Hannasciel, but Hannah Ascher herself) main purposes covered a fairly wide range.

1. In-universe: Harry's preferential treatment toward women is documented and referred to by villains and allies alike, at least three hundred and fifty-eight thousand, two hundred and twenty-seven times per book. Nicodemus sought her out for a couple of reasons, including her natural talent with fire. The other is to provide a hole card for the inevitable confrontation with Harry, and picking a pretty woman is a good way to catch Harry off-guard.

2. Narratively: Hannah's kind of a dark reflection of what Harry might have become. Warlock who killed people in self-defense, but with no Ebenezer to take responsibility. Ran from the White Council and lived as a fugitive. Sought protection and an alliance (and, from her words, friendship) with the Brotherhood of St. Giles. Still hunted and without an organization to protect her, she joined up with Nicodemus.

3. She also represents one facet of the direct human consequences of Harry's decision to kill the Red Court. She put a face to all the faceless people who have suffered from the fallout of Chichen Itza—not just the defenseless Paranetters or plain ol' mortals who've been attacked or abducted by the Fomor, I mean. She can defend herself (quite well, I'd add), but she's one of the people who lost "everything" because of Harry's choice (not quite everything, obviously, since she's still living and breathing.)

4. Her righteous indignation was the result of circumstances that were similar to Harry's; if he'd either A) not had Ebenezer to take responsibility for him and guide him, or B) simply been more bitter over his situation, he very well might've joined Nicodemus way back in Death Masks. The difference is that Harry had good people in his life; Hannah didn't. Or she did, but they were all killed.

What would've happened to Harry if everyone had died in Changes? He might not have picked up a Coin, but I'm willing to be he'd be a lot more like Mirrorverse Harry come Skin Game.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24329
    • View Profile
Re: Denarian Shadows
« Reply #61 on: January 06, 2020, 06:27:46 PM »
Quote
3. She also represents one facet of the direct human consequences of Harry's decision to kill the Red Court. She put a face to all the faceless people who have suffered from the fallout of Chichen Itza—not just the defenseless Paranetters or plain ol' mortals who've been attacked or abducted by the Fomor, I mean. She can defend herself (quite well, I'd add), but she's one of the people who lost "everything" because of Harry's choice (not quite everything, obviously, since she's still living and breathing.)

   But her anger is misplaced, the blame still goes to the Red King who was willing to risk his whole race for the sake of getting Eb.   While yeah, the Red King and his race paid for his gamble, that is still where the anger should go.  Also bear in mind "her people" were the resistance against the Red Court for a very long time..  So just what were the goals of the Order of St Giles?  Was it not to wipe out the Red Court eventually?  Didn't they no know that there would be a price to pay for that?  Could this be why Martin was playing both sides of the street?  Did he always know that with this kind of set up,  Susan would turn, he would die, but he'd be taking the whole Red Court with him?

But none of that is here nor there, if the whole point was Lasciel seeking revenge as the woman scorned it still doesn't work..  Hannah died, she was buried under a ton of slag, and Harry feels
no lasting remorse or pain about what he did, because he did what he did in desperation to save
his family and so that Susan's sacrifice would not have been in vane...

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Denarian Shadows
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2020, 08:54:34 PM »
OTOH, Michael reports that Knight's children have been lured/tricked into taking a Coin; it's apparently a popular Denarian tactic...  Or maybe that's just disinformation planted by the Denarians.
I think that's because the children choose to pick up the coin. I think that's the difference. There has to be a difference, right? Otherwise, Denarians would just force contact with recruits.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24329
    • View Profile
Re: Denarian Shadows
« Reply #63 on: January 06, 2020, 09:34:04 PM »
I think that's because the children choose to pick up the coin. I think that's the difference. There has to be a difference, right? Otherwise, Denarians would just force contact with recruits.

   Yeah, it is a kind of assumed consent even if the poor kid has no clue what he or she is picking up
except a shiny object.

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Denarian Shadows
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2020, 05:33:06 PM »
   Yeah, it is a kind of assumed consent even if the poor kid has no clue what he or she is picking up
except a shiny object.
That is a recurring theme in the dresdenverse. Free will has little to do with informed choice.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]