Author Topic: He Who Walks Before  (Read 4019 times)

Offline Yuillegan

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He Who Walks Before
« on: September 22, 2019, 11:18:22 PM »
Why isn't he dead?

If everything that stands upon the Earth on Halloween is mortal, from the Ladies to the Archangels, why isn't he dead? Harry blew his head off! Yet the dark cloud rushing away yowling implies that he survived?

So are Outsiders more than immortal? Was Bob wrong about conjunctions and Halloween? Are there exceptions?

Offline Braincandy

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2019, 12:22:57 AM »
rough guess, in order to kill something you have to hit with something capable of killing it and not just dispersing it's form. It's very possible that blowing his head off with a Winchester, even with a bit of energy behind it, isn't enough to inflict a fatal wound on something with outsider physiology.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2019, 01:21:58 AM »
So are Outsiders more than immortal? Was Bob wrong about conjunctions and Halloween? Are there exceptions?

I'd guess the conjunction is a rule of Inside that just doesn't apply to outsiders. Especially if they're only projecting their consciousness into a possessed host or an ectoplasm construct, rather than fully entering reality.

I'm not convinced Bob was on the money about Archangels being included there either - he's previously said faith stuff isn't really his area. Based on WOJ that archangels are immune to Nemesis because their nature is immutable, they're probably also above the need to be active on earth on Halloween stealing little nibbles of each other's power to stay recharged. I'd trust info-dumps from Bob when it comes to mantled beings, but he's not really privy to how beings whose power is granted by the Almight actually work.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2019, 04:19:56 AM »
True Bob has been wrong before - so I agree he might not be 100% right about conjunctions. And yeah my take is because they are Beyond, they don't have the same rules apply. Which makes the banefire make more sense (it couldn't kill any outsiders that may have been below Demonreach, but it could keep them down a while).

I think Mortal wounds are what they appear to be generally in the series - but it isn't gospel.

Offline Kindler

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2019, 05:50:14 PM »
I don't think He Who Walks Before was really here, physically. The closest analogue is the Demon who got rocked by Dresden during the Naked Thunderstorm Fight in Storm Front. Its real self was elsewhere. I don't think HWWB is really capable of coming Inside while the Gates stand, even if summoned by mortal magic.

Come to think of it... who summoned HWWB? It takes a mortal to do it. Who was that mortal in Cold Days?

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2019, 07:24:42 PM »
There were a bunch mortal cultists participating in the spell to attack Demonreach, so probably one of them.

Offline g33k

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2019, 07:50:01 PM »
... Come to think of it... who summoned HWWB? It takes a mortal to do it. Who was that mortal in Cold Days?
I think Outsider-summoning is a staple Black Council tactic, so I presume lots of available Summoners.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 12:32:02 AM »
Killing the host of the Winter Lady mantle didn't kill the immortal mantle.  Killing Before's host didn't kill him.  It'd probably take something more, as others said, to kill the rest.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 06:44:18 AM »
Kindler - I considered that, but then that would also defeat the significance of what Bob knows. Not to mention when he discussed how Immortals could be killed, he said it didn't matter if Harry chopped up the Winter Lady and burned her ashes unless it was on Halloween because she would reform otherwise. When Harry questions how he was able to kill Aurora, it is explained that it was because it was in a specific killing ground for immortals (Chicago-over-Chicago), created by the Queens. And Harry killed her without killing the mantle. In fact, I think Mantles can't be killed per se, but transferred or changed. Which is what happened to Maeve and Aurora. But mantles don't apply to Outsiders I think anyway. As mantles seem to be shaped by mortal imagination.

I think HWWBf is able to come in, just not all of him. But it doesn't really matter, he has the same Outsider limits as He Who Walks Behind. As for the summoner, probably another Black Council flunky.

Griff - see above. Nowhere has it been said mantles can be destroyed. In fact, the Mothers specifically tell Harry that cannot be done - energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can be hoarded (like Dragons do) or rendered valueless or sold (both of which are change). I believe that passage is in Summer Knight when Harry is trying to find out from them what could have happened to the mantle of the Summer Knight.

Offline Kindler

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2019, 07:36:59 PM »
I don't think you can apply Bob's knowledge of Immortals to Outsiders. They don't follow the same rules as anyone else, which is one of the things that makes them threatening.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: He Who Walks Before
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2019, 08:01:07 AM »
Kindler - exactly what I am getting at. Either Bob is wrong, or Outsiders are just plain different. I just want to know which one it is and why.