Author Topic: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"  (Read 9202 times)

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2019, 05:02:46 AM »
My only objection to this line of thinking is that Papa Raith has probably not been acting in the Outsider's best interest since Mama Dresden cursed him, so why wait 30 years to make a move?
Because the apocalypse is near. More and more things happen now and in the near future.

Yes to what Arjan said, but also consider that Lord Raith may have made a deal with HWWB, rather than he was possessed by him (it).  This means Nemesis wouldn't know everything that happened to LR because it wasn't in his head to learn of it.  Lord Raith wouldn't share what Margaret's death curse did to him with anyone or anything.  Over time the Outsiders could probably figure it out, but it would take a long time and for a while they could probably afford to be patient.  Plus, perhaps not every deal Papa Raith was offered would have benefitted the Outsider cause.  In such cases they wouldn't care whether he accepted these deals.  Finally, there is the possibility Nemesis made other moves to compensate for Lord Raith's lack of action.  I may have more to say about this last point later. 
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

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Offline Arjan

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2019, 06:40:27 AM »
It is the same reason Maeve can play around for a century but everything needs to be sorted out now. The same reason the reds started their war now escalating everything. It may be simply because the outsiders having more power to influence things because the stars are right. The same reason Harry's stars are right to became an outsider bane.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/4usq2f/cthulhu_mythos_what_does_when_the_stars_are_right/

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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2019, 05:52:15 PM »
@Kurtin & Arjan: I believe that the points you have raised are good responses to my objection. In my opinion, the best answer is that immortals take their time doing things.

My main point is that Lara subjugating him wouldn't be the point at which he needed to be replaced. It may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, or it just may have been that it took 30 years to get everything in place (whether that was stars, agents, internal White Court strife, or some combination of some or all of those things). Once he was neutered, he became much less valuable as an ally or an asset because he was much less willing to take action.

Offline Kindler

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2019, 06:03:42 PM »
A neutered White King isn't a problem for the White Court unless anyone knows about it. If his policies and plans still properly advanced Outsider goals, his personal power doesn't really matter. It only becomes an issue when someone else is pulling his strings, and Lara was definitely not going to agree with the Outsiders on much.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2019, 06:18:52 PM »
I disagree. His personal power affects his actions. It allows him to more easily maintain power. It allows him to take more risks. It allows him to better achieve goals, his or theirs.

Offline Kindler

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2019, 06:26:55 PM »
That would be the case for pretty much any other supernatural organization. But the White Court nobles don't get their hands dirty. Like, ever. Everything gets done through eighteen levels of catpaws.

Plus the dude had spent centuries or millennia building up a reputation. He can trade pretty freely on that for decades—which is exactly what he did. And the guy had a pretty big stockpile built up previously, so it wasn't like he couldn't occasionally do something supervampy. It wasn't until the secret that he couldn't feed was uncovered that it became an issue.

In short: Outsiders used him for political power, and diminished personal strength doesn't really limit his options—within the White Court.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: "At last the masquerade ends! Kill them! Kill them /all/!"
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2019, 07:12:27 PM »
But he had been acting more conservatively and there was more strife in the White Court. His lack of personal power had consequences before Lara took over.