Author Topic: Overall series questions  (Read 12696 times)

Offline kbrizzle

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Overall series questions
« on: August 18, 2019, 06:12:15 AM »
These are some questions I’ve had about the series in general. While I have my own theories, I’m curious about what you all think.

  • From a narrative/ furthering the series standpoint, what is the purpose of Ghost Story? While it gave us a much more detailed perspective on tertiary characters (like Mort) & a good overview of the ghost/spirit world, what was the point of the novel? It seems like the central plot could’ve been boiled down to a longer short story
  • Why is Sanya shown as being a bit clumsy? There are a couple of explicit & random instances, like in SmF when he accidentally cuts Harry’s leg while trying to remove the kelpies on the boat to DR. From a Doylist perspective, why is this relevant? Especially since Michael is never shown as being remotely clumsy, or any other action-character really
  • In the beginning chapters of CD, Sarissa tells Lord Gruff that helping Harry’s convalescence was Mab’s price, but for what? What is Mab doing for Sarissa that she charges her a favor for it? Protection?
  • Since water is anathema to magic, what happens if Demonreach is hit by a tsunami? It is an island after all....
  • What is the current headcount of the White Council? Archangel & the Ramp war likely took a large toll on the already small body of the White Council (500-1000 total WC wizard count IIRC). After PG, ~200 wardens had become 50. After Peabody’s attack in TC, 20-30 wizards more wizards seem to have died. So how many wizards are left on the WC? Did they lose nearly 33-50% of their number in the decade since GP?
  • What exactly happens when a Fae being dies in the mortal world? Are the younger brothers Gruff totally dead? Did they re-spawn in Summer after their defeat?
  • Why does Mother Winter need a walking stick? Why does she seem beset by the ravages of old age at all? She has the power of an archangel, so surely she can cure herself? Why does she feel physical pain from exertion as MS says in CD after Harry summons her?

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 09:21:56 AM »
Just some thoughts:
Since water is anathema to magic, what happens if Demonreach is hit by a tsunami? It is an island after all....

... in a lake??? ? I can't imagine a tsunami would be geographically possible there. Not even if it came from the ocean. The wave hits near the beach and rolls inland after that. Aren't there mountains in between? The lake itself is big but not big enough that a wave could become that high. Except maybe if someone used a lot of water magic....
OK, let's say there is a huge wave. I would think the island can protect itself. Also the important parts seem to be high up or deep down below the surface.


Why does Mother Winter need a walking stick? Why does she seem beset by the ravages of old age at all? She has the power of an archangel, so surely she can cure herself? Why does she feel physical pain from exertion as MS says in CD after Harry summons her?


She is weak because it was summer or not yet winter  at that time, wasn't it?
I think the old age symptoms come from the mothers' mantles. Somehow this seems to be the prize for that much power. A balance thing. Everything in Fairie seems to be about balance.
Or maybe Mother Summer is keeping her this way as long as the table is in Summer's hands and she has more power. To keep Winter in check. So that she would not overpower all the mighty ones in the world and take over.
Just like why there are counterparts to the Winter Queen and Lady.
Maybe that's why they live together.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 09:43:10 AM »
As good as Changes is as a narrative, in it, Harry can best be described as a d**k.  He's selfish, childish, and generally speaking, unhinged.  Ghost Story seems to want to explain that behavior.  The answer it appears,  is the devil made me do it.  That's the Cliff's Notes version.

Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 10:05:41 AM »
Idea about Sanya:

Maybe to show, that to be a Knight of the Cross you don't have to be the perfect hero type like Michael. You can be clumsy. And you can even be agnostic  ;D
 

Offline Mira

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 10:19:36 AM »
Quote
... in a lake??? ? I can't imagine asun tami would be geographically possible there. Not even if it came from the ocean. The wave hits near the beach and rolls inland after that. Aren't there mountains in between? The lake itself is big but not big enough that a wave could become that high. Except maybe if someone used a lot of water magic....
OK, let's say there is a huge wave. I would think the island can protect itself. Also the important parts seem to be high up or deep down below the surface.

I think one would be possible,  tsunamis  are caused by earth quakes under water.  They can also happen in lakes if there is a big enough rock or land slide into one side of it, saw a clip of that on either the Science Channel or the History Channel,  rock slide into a large lake caused a fifty foot wave.


Offline Regenbogen

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 10:55:28 AM »
I think one would be possible,  tsunamis  are caused by earth quakes under water.  They can also happen in lakes if there is a big enough rock or land slide into one side of it, saw a clip of that on either the Science Channel or the History Channel,  rock slide into a large lake caused a fifty foot wave.


How big must the mass be, do you know? I was thinking more of an volcano underground. In the immediate area of the explosion the waves should be not that big - in case of a landmass at least as big as the mass plus acceleration (I hope I use the right words) - but they are building momentum the further away from the blast they get and the higher the ground of the see gets.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 02:43:21 PM »
Just some thoughts:
... in a lake??? ? I can't imagine a tsunami would be geographically possible there. Not even if it came from the ocean. The wave hits near the beach and rolls inland after that. Aren't there mountains in between? The lake itself is big but not big enough that a wave could become that high. Except maybe if someone used a lot of water magic....
OK, let's say there is a huge wave. I would think the island can protect itself. Also the important parts seem to be high up or deep down below the surface.
Well given that we are dealing with a series about magic, I’d imagine there are myriad ways a powerful being could use this to their advantage.

But if I were an evil, unimaginably powerful being & I wanted to attack Demonreach, I would take a page out of @Mira’s book & use a combination of earthquake & tsunami as my opening salvo. Perhaps something like this will set off the BAT?

Quote
She is weak because it was summer or not yet winter  at that time, wasn't it?
I think the old age symptoms come from the mothers' mantles. Somehow this seems to be the prize for that much power. A balance thing. Everything in Fairie seems to be about balance.
Or maybe Mother Summer is keeping her this way as long as the table is in Summer's hands and she has more power. To keep Winter in check. So that she would not overpower all the mighty ones in the world and take over.
Just like why there are counterparts to the Winter Queen and Lady.
Maybe that's why they live together.
CD occurs around Halloween which is when Winter is more powerful. In CD Mother Summer explicitly says  “she rarely leaves our cottage anymore, she lost her walking stick you see....it’s painful for her to travel, even briefly”.

The question is, why? As Bob says, the Queens are true immortals.

Quote
Idea about Sanya:

Maybe to show, that to be a Knight of the Cross you don't have to be the perfect hero type like Michael. You can be clumsy. And you can even be agnostic  ;D
Possible, although then I expect Butters to be even clumsier over the next few books. It seems weird though that JB goes out of his way to talk about Harry’s leg being cut in SmF only to go nowhere with it.

As good as Changes is as a narrative, in it, Harry can best be described as a d**k.  He's selfish, childish, and generally speaking, unhinged.  Ghost Story seems to want to explain that behavior.  The answer it appears,  is the devil made me do it.  That's the Cliff's Notes version.
True but again, this could be covered more easily in a short story than a full case file. I mean having ghost Corpsetaker & Evil Bob as the bad guys... especially after Changes seemed like a let down.
I get that JB wanted to introduce us to new-ish concepts like ghosts/ lemours/ shades etc., but I wonder why he recycled a couple of side- bad guys from the previous books & made them the big bad of this novel. I mean what happened to Grevane’s ghost?

This could have been an interesting book to revisit the ‘ghosts’ of Harry’s past & all the people who’ve died in Chicago - like Sells, Kim Delaney, Shiro etc. By the amount of time that was spent developing Fitz as a character, I’m sure we’ll see more of him in the later books although I found him to be uninteresting.

I dunno, it was kind of a lackluster book, but that’s probably because the books leading up to & after it (TC, Changes, CD, SG) are some of the best in the series.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 03:12:48 PM by kbrizzle »

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2019, 03:12:24 PM »
I don't think the area is near a plate boundary so no volcanoes .  The area is rather well scrubbed by glaciers so not a lot of high ground on the lake to provide debris for a landslide.  Near Toledo(and I assume near lake Michigan the ground is flat.  Being from Kentucky I found that disturbing.  And a quick glimpse on Google Earth  makes me believe that Demonreach island is an outlier in having a rocky hill like character.  However it evidently has a Formor redoubt, so who knows?

Offline Mira

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2019, 05:10:42 PM »
How big must the mass be, do you know? I was thinking more of an volcano underground. In the immediate area of the explosion the waves should be not that big - in case of a landmass at least as big as the mass plus acceleration (I hope I use the right words) - but they are building momentum the further away from the blast they get and the higher the ground of the see gets.

  I think it depends on the topography under the lake, then how big the quake which displaces the the water.  In the film I saw it was a huge chunk of cliff that fell in, the sheer mass of it caused a big wave that took out everything on the other side of the lake.   Remember water is heavy and it doesn't have to be very deep or fast to do a lot of damage.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2019, 11:53:51 PM »
Since water is anathema to magic, what happens if Demonreach is hit by a tsunami? It is an island after all....[/li][/list]

I suppose a meteor strike or an underwater nuclear detonation in Lake Michigan are potential mechanisms. Within the story, I can think of a couple powers off the top of my head that could arrange one or both.

Merlin seems to have planned for the island to be subject to thousands of years of normal rainfall without the prison losing integrity, though. Possibly the surface defenses are set up to draw power off the dark ley line created from the prisoners' "body heat", or something about how the enchantment was created across time.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2019, 12:02:16 AM »
@Snark Knight
Those were my thoughts as well. Regarding the rainfall - the prison is ~1750 steps below iirc - so I doubt any rainfall makes down to the prison itself.

An earthquake followed by a tsunami however would be quite devastating I’d imagine.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2019, 02:27:53 AM »
1. While I agree Ghost Story was a bit of a let down and definitely felt like it could have been a short story, it did introduce the Ghost plane of the Nevernever. Which I imagine is important for the world building, long term. As you say, it did also give us those character development moments such as the degradation of Molly, the suffering of Murphy, the building of Butters to knight, the impact of Mort etc. A lot of it was showing the void that Harry left behind. It also introduces our new mysterious evil faction, the Fomor. Finally, it was all about Harry learning that actions have consequences (which I suspect ties into the heart of the mechanics of Free Will - you will notice that Uriel finally gets serious stage time and Angels start showing up. This is a pretty big hint to how important things are in this book). There is a fair amount of foreshadowing, and also some discussion on how magic works in a fundamental way. We also get some insight into what really happened with HWWBh, and what Justin was like.  My take is that this book will definitely will become much more relevant as the series goes into it's final stage.

2. I could be uncharitable here and criticise Jim about Sanya. But I will give him the benefit of the doubt and argue that it could just come down to the writing. The character archetype of Michael (as Jim often describes) is a pillar of good - the typical paladin. So he is as close to a perfect paladin (without going OP) as Jim could write. He is noble, virtuous, wise and brave and all the other things. It is also that he is older than Sanya. Michael's teacher and mentor, Shiro, was even better (comparable to Mozart) in terms of his abilities and seemingly even more virtuous than Michael. He fills the classic Yoda/Master Splinter/Gandalf role. Michael as the second oldest is more like Qui-Gon Jin/Obi-Wan (Ep 3)/Aragorn role. Sanya then is still quite new (hence he uses things like AKs) and fits the Obi-Wan (Ep 2)/Boromir type role. Butters being both the youngest AND newest is then of course is Obi-Wan (Ep 1)/Early Spider-Man/Luke (New Hope). A bit heavy handed on the analogies, but you get the idea. I think they just fit the molds Jim has made. Plus of course for plot reasons - sometimes you need something done and you only have certain tools to hand.

3. I think what Sarissa owes Mab is complex - and boils down to a mix of protection and healing. Remember she had a terrible brain illness that Mab saved her from. I wonder even though she is Mab's daughter, if Mab could even heal her daughter without extracting a payment. I suspect not.

4. As some have already pointed out, Demonreach is in the middle of a lake and quite protected from such events. But even if somehow a tsunami did occur, as has been already stated, the Well is actually deep below the island. Perhaps below the bottom of the lake too - if Harry's description in CD is anything to go by. And I am sure the Merlin put some protection in for just that sort of frontal assault. An interesting note though is that Jim has been rather inconsistent on the Water issue with magic. I suspect when Jim first built it in, like happens to us all, he didn't fully consider the implications. So he has to go back and correct, and because he is clever and experienced he often does a very good job. There have been plenty of scenes where it has been raining that haven't affected magic in that scene. Just look at Skin Game when Uriel shows up. Perhaps Dresden's knowledge is incomplete, perhaps the degree to which this affects magic is undefined. Mostly it is used for plot reasons anyway - the water issue.

5. A most interesting question! Not that the others weren't, but this is trickier. Harry states that there is roughly 1 wizard talent per million humans. So roughly 7700 Wizard-level human talents out there, give or take. But as we know, the 200 Wardens (during and previous to Dead Beat) were about 20% of the White Council. Which obviously puts the Council at around 1000 Wizard. We also know that the Council cannot keep up with the amount of new Wizards popping up as the population has exploded. This also does not seem to include Paranet-level practitioners, but may include Warlocks and Sorcerers (in the 7700 number). Now perhaps Jim forgot he wrote that (he has admitted to that in the past - hence why he checks the wiki and has his beta readers) but I think not. It is also not clear if by the 1000 or so Wizards of the White Council includes apprentices. Which again, I believe it does not. It seems somewhat implied that a lot of apprentices got elevated to full-wizard after the events of Grave Peril in order to replenish the ranks (Ramirez and the younger wardens come to mind).  But yeah, I would say that there are not many in the actual Council. Which actually seems really odd - considering the size of the threats out there. A lot of the way Harry used to talk about it made it sound like there was in fact several thousand of them. Harry is massively out of the loop as the series stands, so Peace Talks will hopefully help answer that question (and all the many other overdue ones about the what exactly the White Council has been up to).

6. I can't quite remember exactly, but I believe there is a WOJ on Fae's dying in the mortal world. Essentially it stated because Fae are of two worlds, they don't turn to ectoplasm. However unless they had a mantle, they do not come back. The title of Eldest is normally passed on (like a mantle, yet not a mantle). Fae are seemingly grown from seed stock peoples, so I don't think the younger Gruff brothers will return. Which I imagine Titania isn't super pleased about. In fact, I am surprised how calm Eldest Gruff is. Although I think there are more small and medium Gruffs, than just what we saw.

7. Ah yes. Mother Winter. Why indeed would such a being need a walking stick? Or indeed a body? She is more equivalent to a star or blizzard on a thousand worlds. My guess? The "walking stick" is like the mantles, a part of her. Perhaps the physical representation of her ability to interact. Mother Summer always seems more mobile, and has no walking stick to speak of. When it comes to the Nevernever, and especially the Powers, I believe that we are entering the realms of metaphor as much a physical reality. Abstract concepts such as thoughts and time can have physical representations (which is really what the Mothers are, after all). Remember the Outer Gates - Harry's mind can only process so much so he boils them down into something as obvious and simplistic as those massive gates. He cannot experience reality in more than 3 or 4 dimensions. Same with when he was in Ghost Story, he can only experience a very limited view of reality. The Nevernever is very similar to the Immaterium of Warhammer 40K, where thoughts become reality. Jim used to play both types of Warhammer I believe, so I am not totally surprised.

So to get back to your question - why does she feel pain, or appear old etc? Because that is the best representation of WHAT she is, and how Mortal minds have shaped her. Consider the fact that Harry hurt her at all, and how both angry and insulted she was. Consider Uriel's reaction when Harry dropped the -el from his name. Mortal Free Will seems to have unlimited power in some deep ways...and Immortals hate it. Mortals can constantly redefine their reality, and of course themselves (to speak of one is to speak of the other really). Immortals have only the illusion of this. I suspect this is the crux of Lucifer's argument with God: Mortal's have unlimited power in a sense, and can change all of reality. Any mortal. All of them together...leads to a massive problem. Immortals were only given limited will (enough to act somewhat on their own - Jim has said Angel's at least had enough will to Fall) but cannot really change their own destinies. Why? No idea. Jim may have an answer for his series - but people have been trying to answer question like that forever. So this is why she feels pain from moving - she has perhaps lost the part of her power that allows her to interact more freely. Anyone would be upset by that - imagine if you lost your legs and then some fool tries to drag you out to him!

Sorry about the ridiculously long post, but you ask big questions!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 05:44:17 AM by Yuillegan »

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2019, 12:02:09 PM »
Sarissa has a congenital disease that would kill her, taking care of Harry is part of Mab's price for keeping her alive.

Offline Mira

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2019, 04:25:43 PM »
Sarissa has a congenital disease that would kill her, taking care of Harry is part of Mab's price for keeping her alive.

Evidence?   I don't remember her saying that..  If she does have a congenital disease, from whom did she inherit it?  Her mother, Mab's side or her unknown father?  Also did Maeve suffer the same?

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Overall series questions
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2019, 04:40:41 PM »
Location 1347 in the Kindle version.  This is the just after the party at Arctis Tor.
Quote
"I...have a form of congenital demtia," she said."I watched what it did to my older sister and..." She shuddered.  "Doctors can't help me.  Mab can."