Author Topic: Does the WhiteCouncil know Justin had a 2nd apprentice?  (Read 4118 times)

Offline g33k

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Does the WhiteCouncil know Justin had a 2nd apprentice?
« on: July 09, 2019, 06:41:10 PM »
We know that they don't know Elaine was DuMorne's apprentice.  She successfully fooled Ramirez into believing she wasn't quite strong enough to be WC'ed.  They don't connect her to DuMorne at all.

But... do they "know of" that 2nd apprentice, at least as a matter of history?  Is it unequivocally stated (either way) anywhere?

I think they likely do know.  They had Harry, who wasn't likely to "defend" or "hide" Elaine, since he expected she was dead when they questioned him.  If they searched, the Summer Court protections would have blocked their searches the same as they later blocked Harry's.

He'd have testified that she trapped him for Justin's mental assault.  "Justin's other apprentice attacked me" is part of Harry's defense.

It's also possible that the ruins held signs of another resident, that the labs showed signs of a 2nd apprentice; there may have been "women's stuff" around -- clothing, accessories, etc, unlikely to be either Justin's or Harry's.

Finally... didn't they both attend public school?  They did homework together, did magic together, did... other stuff together.  But the public-school records would have revealed the DuMorne enrolled TWO students.

He also may have mentioned her to Eb, out at Hog Wallow farm.  Young guy, still processing on his First Love betraying him, and coming to respect Eb... Harry ain't exactly a gushing fount of emote-all-over, but getting the wisdom of a respected elder on a very troubling matter... THAT I can see.

(edit to correct an issue of what Harry saw during the fire)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 08:08:27 PM by g33k »

Offline Arjan

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Re: Does the WhiteCouncil know Justin had a 2nd apprentice?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2019, 04:00:10 PM »
They probably don't know. From what we have seen of wizard trials they are not exactly interested in what the warlock has to say:

Quote
“Donald Morgan,” the Merlin said, “have you anything to say in your defense?”
That part was sort of unusual. The accused were very rarely given much of a chance to say anything.
It clouded issues so.

Also Harry had no reason to tell and every reason to keep quiet if only to avoid more accusations.
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Offline g33k

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Re: Does the WhiteCouncil know Justin had a 2nd apprentice?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2019, 08:37:39 PM »
They probably don't know. From what we have seen of wizard trials they are not exactly interested in what the warlock has to say:

Also Harry had no reason to tell and every reason to keep quiet if only to avoid more accusations.

But think about it from the WC/Warden perspective.  DuMorne is dead.  This guy was a badass Warden:  he was in on the Kemmler finale!  And that was 40 years ago... presumably he's only honed his art further.

Do they believe that a punk teenager beat DuMorne in a duel?

A punk teenager who was under supervision by DuMorne, without much opportunity to learn/practice black magic?  And presumably without resources (books/etc) as DuMorne would have controlled such things.

From the WC/Warden POV, this premise seems absurd, a non-starter.  In their shoes, I would presume another party, a 2nd wizard; even if Harry was the proximate killer, who was pulling Harry's strings?

If DuMorne could be killed -- a top-tier combat wizard -- then nobody is safe.  That (presumed) 2nd wizard must be discovered, or be proven (beyond reasonable doubt) to not exist.

And it's that investigation -- of the grounds where DuMorne lived, of the mundane records such as school enrollment, etc etc etc. -- where I think Elaine's existence would have come to light, whether Harry tried to conceal it, or not... or was never even questioned on the matter.
 

Offline Arjan

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Re: Does the WhiteCouncil know Justin had a 2nd apprentice?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 08:19:20 PM »
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"Wizard DuMorne died, yes," LaFortier said. "Whether he was defeated in an open duel or burned in his sleep is another matter entirely. Merlin, you have heard my motion. Let the Council vote upon the status of this madman. Let us end this foolishness and return to our lives."

Some wizards may know more and others less but the council as a whole did not examine the case as thouroughly as you would expect. They were not really interested. Everything points to them not knowing about Elaine.




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Offline segaily

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Re: Does the WhiteCouncil know Justin had a 2nd apprentice?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 03:13:46 PM »
But think about it from the WC/Warden perspective.  DuMorne is dead.  This guy was a badass Warden:  he was in on the Kemmler finale!  And that was 40 years ago... presumably he's only honed his art further.

Do they believe that a punk teenager beat DuMorne in a duel?

A punk teenager who was under supervision by DuMorne, without much opportunity to learn/practice black magic?  And presumably without resources (books/etc) as DuMorne would have controlled such things.

From the WC/Warden POV, this premise seems absurd, a non-starter.  In their shoes, I would presume another party, a 2nd wizard; even if Harry was the proximate killer, who was pulling Harry's strings?

If DuMorne could be killed -- a top-tier combat wizard -- then nobody is safe.  That (presumed) 2nd wizard must be discovered, or be proven (beyond reasonable doubt) to not exist.

And it's that investigation -- of the grounds where DuMorne lived, of the mundane records such as school enrollment, etc etc etc. -- where I think Elaine's existence would have come to light, whether Harry tried to conceal it, or not... or was never even questioned on the matter.

I do not think anyone would be looking for another wizard. I think there were probably 2 groups those who trusted McCoy completely and those who just figured Harry took DuMorne by surprise.  Dumorne happily giving Harry a lesson.  Harry draws in lots of power to, Dumorne thinks, cast the practice spell.  Suddenly fire coming right at Dumorne and he does not get shield up in time. 

That group probably figured it would happen again with McCoy.  Either McCoy would kill Harry or if Harry pulled it off again they would kill Harry afterwards and would not have the annoying McCoy around anymore.