Author Topic: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?  (Read 12946 times)

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2019, 11:06:37 AM »
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Wow, a lot to unpack here. I will point out that almost everything you’re saying is a theory (some with strong evidence).
Everything is  theory until Jim writes it.

The Black Council is the culprit in pointing the finger at Madrigal. The finger is pointed at Madrigal in Proven Guilty not White Knight.  The foreshadowing is the the attack on Molly by Sandra Marling.
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I guess you could say that Cowl/ the Circle are using Madrigal.
I suppose you could say this text from White Knight says it.
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"And the fool with you?"
"Still ignorant, my lord. I can preserve or dispose of him as you see fit." Grey Cloak took a deep breath and said, "He has gotten the wizard involved. There is some sort of vendetta between them, it would seem."
The little mist figure made a hissing sound. "The fool. There is not enough profit in Dresden's death to jeopardize the operation."

Mab is curing Lea by torturing her, the garden isn't a hospital.  I suppose you could call it Mab's happy place.

The Black Council attacked Arctis Tor.  From Small Favor.
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Mab paused, turned, casually showing off the gorgeous curves of her calves, and tilted her head at me. “Nicodemus and his ilk were clearly in violation of my Accords, and obviously planning to abuse them to further his ambition. That was reason enough to see his designs disrupted. And among the Fallen was one with much to answer for to me, personally, for its attack upon my home.”
“The Black Council attack on Arctis Tor,” I said. “One of them used Hellfire.”
Mab showed me her snow-white teeth. “The Watchman and I,” Grimalkin mewled for her, “had a common enemy this day. The enemy could not be allowed to gain the power represented by the child Archive.”
I frowned and thought of the silver hand that had batted the fallen angel and his master sorceries around as if he’d been a stuffed practice dummy. “Thorned Namshiel.”
Everybody at the attack at Arctis Tor other than Thorned Namshiel has the role of spear carrier.  The only method of attack discussed is hellfire.

I was mistaken, nadia.skylark is correct, Cassius is dead by this point, so we are left with only Ace.  Harry will be attacked multiple times over the next books by someone not magical. including a car bomb under Murphy's car and the bomb dropped on him in Cold Days.
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There is no evidence that Mab positioned most of her forces at the Summer border ready to attack just to flush out a traitor (it’s possible, but it’s just a theory) - the fact that Mab has done this is used by Maeve to convince Harry that Mab has been Nfected.
Mab tells Harry this, in Small Favor.
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“When one Court moves, the other perforce moves with it,” Mab said.
This is why she is at the border.  Summer is the only force that can threaten her in Faerie.  She uses Harry to flush out the traitor.  Note this exchange with Maeve.
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“Why hasn’t Winter moved against the Red Court?”
Maeve regarded me with an odd little twinkle in her eye, then nodded and said, “Mab has not allowed it.”
Fix and Lily traded a quick look of surprise.
“Sooth,” Maeve said, nodding, evidently enjoying their reaction. “The Queen has readied her forces to strike at Summer, and has furthermore given specific orders preventing her captains from conducting operations against the Red Court.”
“That’s madness,” Lily said quietly.
Maeve folded her hands on the table, frowning at something far away, and said, “It may well be. Dark things stir in Winter’s heart. Things even I have never before seen. Dangerous things. I believe they are a portent.”
I tilted my head a little, focused on her. “How so?”
“What Aurora attempted was insane. Even among the Sidhe,” Maeve replied. “Her actions could have thrown enormous forces out of balance, to the ruin of all.”
This is a subtle lie.  Maeve doesn't mention the attack, though as one of the Queens she had to know.  Harry only learns of it when he goes to Arctis Tor.  The question isn't who attacked, but why.  We see the result, the Reds are able to attack with impunity.  It also locks down the timing.  Mab gives no indication of the attack when she is summoned by Harry in Lea's place in Dead Beat.  By the events of Proven Guilty the attack is over and done.  This is also indicative of Maeve being Nemfected.

Offline g33k

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2019, 05:06:24 PM »
I had considered Elaine because she likely has the skill to get through Harry’s wards, get around Bob & fix LC (if she knew she needed to fix it). My only issue here is the timing & the doubts I have about Elaine’s loyalties. Elaine’s last 2 ‘sponsors’ were Justin & Aurora - I don’t think MS would want to risk allowing a possibly Nfected/ thrall/ Black Council Agent access to Harry’s apt at this critical time when Nemesis is in the middle of a big play
Elaine was IN Harry's apartment; MS either "allowed" it ... or couldn't/wouldn't stop it ... or didn't care...

As E. says to Harry, he needs to change how he does his wards -- it's not that her skills are sufficient to get through his wards, it's that she already had the keys because he (lazily) didn't change the basic structures they learned together.  And of course she knows all about Bob, and would know how to work around him (or warn MS that SHE would need to).

We (the readers) don't know Elaine's real allegiance.
I don't doubt that the Mothers DO know it, however...

And I still prefer Mab acting as Lea-surrogate, because Lea swore to protect Harry and the NN-backdoor is too perfect.

And above THAT one, I prefer that TT-Harry does it.


But maybe Jim has Other Plans...  time will tell!
 

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2019, 07:17:07 PM »
Agreed, Madrigal was supposed to be the fall guy in PG. In WN he is more of a convenient if expendable helper to Vito & Cowl’s plan to usurp the White throne. When does Molly get attacked by Sandra Marling?

I still think that the garden is more than just that - it contains Winter’s Wellspring for one. I think if anything that it is a special prison where Mab keeps Nfected or Circle agents from Winter as a re-education camp (to try & cure them).

Arctis Tor
The point about the assault on Arctis Tor is that while Namshiel was throwing hellfire around, there is no way he is formidable enough to assault the heart of Winter alone - there were definitely other heavy hitters from the Black Council/ Circle involved.

Positioning of Fae troops during & prior to PG
Regarding the Faerie forces on the borders - remember Lily’s words after Harry & company cross back into Chicago - she says that she needed Harry to use Summer fire in Winter’s Wellspring so that Summer could withdraw forces from the border & start attacking the Ramps. Lily cannot lie, so this means that Summer only had their forces at the Winter border because Mab had first amassed her troops there (also supported by your quote)

For Mab’s plan to play out as you’re suggesting regarding flushing out the traitor - she has to send away most of her protection to the Summer border while she is down 2 of her more powerful retinue (Lea & the WK), & Nemesis is in the middle of a strong play. Also note the frequent presence of Outsiders during the Ramps attacks on the WC - her inability to stop this reflects poorly on her. Then she has to wait & see who attacks the heart of her domain which lies undefended enough for the attackers to break through, endangering the Winter Wellspring. This would be an extraordinarily risky move on her part....

The consequences of these actions are to cast doubts into the minds of her allies & Signatories of the accords about her sanity. What purpose does this serve since Nemesis would know that Mab is not Nfected? The consequence of these actions are that the WC and Summer are flummoxed & future insults are given to Mab by the likes of Lara Raith & Nicodemus in the following books. For Mab to have planned this would require her to be willfully perceived as weak by the supernatural community at large - something that is & has been detrimental to her goals since PG.

Instead it makes more sense that she was duped into sending her troops in the direction she was expecting Nemesis’ next attack (from Summer). This left her undefended at Arctis Tor, giving the Black council confidence to attack her stronghold. What saved her is that she is able to hide away in the Winter garden & send the Fetches to grab Molly, bringing Harry in to save the day.

To me the attack at Arctis Tor was Mab at her lowest point - she is just about able to survive, & then spends the next few books extracting her revenge (as you point out). This would also add a layer to her palpable anger after the attack (where her speech cannot be heard by mortal ears) in addition to the fact that her daughter has been Nfected. As Sarissa notes in CD, at Arctis Tor surviving is winning.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 09:12:47 PM by kbrizzle »

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2019, 10:26:39 PM »
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When does Molly get attacked by Sandra Marling?
Sandra Marling is involved in every step that pushes Molly towards black magic.  This is very low key.
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The point about the assault on Arctis Tor is that while Namshiel was throwing hellfire around, there is no way he is formidable enough to assault the heart of Winter alone - there were definitely other heavy hitters from the Black Council/ Circle involved.
Insert any characters that please you.  But Thorned Namshiel throws hellfire and Mab names him specifically.  The hellfire is the important point.  Later in Cold Days Mother Summer tells Harry that the Councils count on Winters forces in Winter is correct, approximately 50,000.  Any assault force that tarried would have faced all of them once fire was thrown at Arctis Tor.  Harry's assault on Arctis Tor can be seen as mirroring what probably went on with Thorned Namshiel.
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Regarding the Faerie forces on the borders - remember Lily’s words after Harry & company cross back into Chicago - she says that she needed Harry to use Summer fire in Winter’s Wellspring so that Summer could withdraw forces from the border & start attacking the Ramps. Lily cannot lie, so this means that Summer only had their forces at the Winter border because Mab had first amassed her troops there (also supported by your quote)
True, and that was the point.  The second attack mirrors the first and has almost the same effect.
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For Mab’s plan to play out as you’re suggesting regarding flushing out the traitor - she has to send away most of her protection to the Summer border while she is down 3 of her her most powerful retinue (Lea, Maeve & the WK) & Nemesis is in the middle of a strong play. Then she has to wait & see who attacks the heart of her domain which lies undefended enough for the attackers to break through, endangering the Winter Wellspring.
No.  The Wellspring is in no danger.  Mab is there and her armies are close at hand.  Cowl's ascension has failed and the Reds attack failed to achieve its goal in Dead Beat. And Summer is stymied.  The attackers, Harry and his allies, don't break in, they walk in through what is, in all likelihood, the same portal by which Thorned Namshiel entered.
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What purpose does this serve since Nemesis would know that Mab is not Nfected? All it did was to force the Grey Council to send Harry in to investigate & allowed future insults to be given to Mab by the likes of Lara Raith & Nicodemus.
This is part of Maeve's plan.  And think about how it works out for Maeve and Nicodemus.  If I were Lara I would wear a Mab proof vest and not invite Harry to any family gathering in the future.
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Instead it makes more sense that she was duped into sending her troops in the direction she was expecting Nemesis’ next attack (from Summer). This left her undefended at Arctis Tor, giving the Black council confidence to attack her stronghold. What saved her is that she is able to hide away in the Winter garden & send the Fetches to grab Molly, bringing Harry in to save the day.
Cart before horse.  Harry summons Lea during Dead Beat.  Mab shows instead.  The attack at Arctis Tor has not yet occurred.  Cowl is attempting the Dark Hallow and the Reds are moving.  This is when the attack occurs.  The attack prevents Mab from intervening in either the Reds attack or in Cowl's ascension and is the purpose of the attack. And why does everyone assume that Mab had Molly brought to Arctis Tor?  Whoever had the Scarecrow kill Glau and attempt to kill Harry and the others throws doubt on Mab calling Harry to Arctis Tor.  Why try to kill Harry or for that matter Glau?  Whoever was controlling Scarecrow had Molly brought to the Wellspring.  My money is on Maeve.

Small Favor is Mab's and Winter's nadir.  Mab has been stripped of her those who are closest to her.  And she knows.  And at that point she is attacked indirectly by Titania who is attempting to kill Harry, whom she has been using as a de facto Winter Knight. 

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2019, 03:18:51 AM »
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Cowl is attempting the Dark Hallow and the Reds are moving.  This is when the attack occurs.  The attack prevents Mab from intervening in either the Reds attack or in Cowl's ascension and is the purpose of the attack.

Wait, what? I assume this is a theory, because there is no evidence for this whatsoever.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2019, 04:23:15 AM »
@nadia
Definitely agree.

@morriswalters
Hellfire is the most noticeable (since it leaves an after smell), especially to Harry. There is evidence that other types of magic were used as well (such as acid) - they just didn’t leave as strong an impression behind. For all we know Dragons were involved in the attack as well.
I don’t see how Namshiel & Harry’s visits to Arctis Tor mirror each other - the former blew through the front gate & killed the entire skeleton garrison at the fortress, the latter sneaks in to save a mortal imprisoned there. The only similarity is that they both wield hellfire in Arctis Tor. Why do you think they entered through the same portal?

If Mab couldn’t protect her own front gates, I don’t see how she was in a position to adequately protect the Wellspring. She was hiding out there, not waiting for the attacking host to reach the Wellspring. Her entire personal guard had been slaughtered - as Harry theorizes this happened while they were covering Mab’s retreat to the Wellspring. Perhaps you suggest that Mab & Namshiel were the only survivors of this attack?

Her armies are not close at hand - they are only able to get there fast because as Lily says, Maeve has greatly sped up the passage of time in the last few moments of the battle (no doubt to try & kill Harry before he’s able to cross/ pretend to Mab that she was trying to help post-assault.)

Maeve’s plan is to paint Mab as Nfected to non-Black Council parties - it would make sense that she would help orchestrate some of Mab’s unusual actions to serve this purpose (like lying to her & telling her that Lily is Nfected). It works out poorly for Nicodemus 7 books later when Mab has her retinue back (WL, Lea & WK) & is in a position to be dealing out vengeance. Lara on the other hand was dealing minor insults to see what Winter would do - Harry has already dealt with it as Mab sees it in WN.

Mab shows up when Lea is summoned in DB because Lea is imprisoned for being Nfected. There is no evidence that the attack happens in the few minutes she’s in Chicago. How would anyone know that Harry was going to summon Lea in DB at all? It’s not like he reaches out to her for help often....

Cowl’s Darkhallow attempt & the Ramp attack are not simultaneous events (Luccio & the wardens who arrive in Chicago are survivors of Ramp attack), so why would the Arctis Tor assault be so coordinated? The Ramp attack happens first (to wipe out the SC/ wardens), then Cowl’s ascension as a dark God second (so the WC can’t interfere - Mab already can’t since her Knight is imprisoned), who will then help with the assault on Arctis Tor because then Black Council has has someone in Mab’s league third. Harry stops the plan by interrupting the 2nd event in DB, which in turn makes the assault on Arctis Tor fail since Mab is able to get to the Wellspring.

The reasons I think Mab sent the Fetch are:
  • The scarecrow was the Eldest Fetch - directly beholden to Mab (like Cat Sith for malks). They are known as Mab’s personal spies.
  • The Scarecrow is able to get inside the Carpenter household despite the angelic guard - perhaps possible because of Uriel
  • Sandra Marling & co (likely Black Council) are manipulating Molly & have put her on a path that leads to her becoming a warlock. By kidnapping Molly & bringing her to the heart of Winter, Mab would be able to keep her away from the clutches of the BC or kill her if she too has been Nfected - my WAG is that since Mab believes Lily has been Nfected (another WAG), she identifies Molly as a replacement candidate (note her words at the end of CD about originally considering Molly to be a better candidate for Summer). Note that Molly’s life starts going downhill (getting caught with drugs at a party) around the same time Winter amasses it’s troops at Summer’s border (around a year before the events of PG).

I would say that PG is when Mab is personally at her nadir - she is down a WK; her Lady & #2 have been Nfected & her home has been attacked. After the attack, she literally cannot converse with mortals without a “translator”. SmF I’d say is the nadir of her reputation within the supernatural community - Nic has flagrantly violated the Accords twice & Mab has no depth on her bench to deal with it (except Harry’s debt). Her strongest allies outside of Faerie (White Council) are still recovering from the devastating Ramp wars & in no position to start another one with the Denarians.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 04:46:17 AM by kbrizzle »

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2019, 04:45:24 AM »
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The Scarecrow is able to get inside the Carpenter household despite the angelic guard - perhaps possible because of Uriel

A minor point: the angelic guards don't turn up until the end of Small Favor, when Michael is forced into retirement. What the Scarecrow has to deal with to get inside the Carpenter house is their ridiculously powerful threshold.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2019, 12:06:02 PM »
Dragons?  It mirrors the previous attack by having Harry do the same thing as Thorned Namshiel does, throw fire, and then showing the results of doing so. 
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Why do you think they entered through the same portal?
Both groups share a similar problem, how do you  create a portal to Arctis Tor? And then how do you get away?  We have two instances of people trying to create portals to places of power.  The break in to Hades domain and the attack at Chichen Itza.
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If Mab couldn’t protect her own front gates, I don’t see how she was in a position to adequately protect the Wellspring.
What makes you think that Mab was at Arctis Tor at all? If there was an army why stop until you have achieved your objective?  What did Thorned Namshiel accomplish?
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Her armies are not close at hand - they are only able to get there fast because as Lily says, Maeve has greatly sped up the passage of time in the last few moments of the battle (no doubt to try & kill Harry before he’s able to cross/ pretend to Mab that she was trying to help post-assault.)
One might assume if Maeve could do such a thing that Mab could do likewise.
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Mab shows up when Lea is summoned in DB because Lea is imprisoned for being Nfected. There is no evidence that the attack happens in the few minutes she’s in Chicago. How would anyone know that Harry was going to summon Lea in DB at all? It’s not like he reaches out to her for help often....
The timing has nothing to do with Lea being summoned.  It purely a marker.
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Cowl’s Darkhallow attempt & the Ramp attack are not simultaneous events (Luccio & the wardens who arrive in Chicago are survivors of Ramp attack), so why would the Arctis Tor assault be so coordinated? The Ramp attack happens first (to wipe out the SC/ wardens), then Cowl’s ascension as a dark God second (so the WC can’t interfere - Mab already can’t since her Knight is imprisoned), who will then help with the assault on Arctis Tor because then Black Council has has someone in Mab’s league third. Harry stops the plan by interrupting the 2nd event in DB, which in turn makes the assault on Arctis Tor fail since Mab is able to get to the Wellspring.
The attack against the WC starts three days before the meeting in Mcanally's.  The Reds follow them into Sidhe territory a day later.  Mab meets with Harry. My working assumption has been that the attack happens after Mab shows up, but it doesn't have to be that way.  It could have happened before and the timing works better if it did.  The only thing you need accept is that Mab isn't quaking with fear hiding out in the garden.

Harry in effect invited the fetches past the threshold when he set them upon Molly.  Harry himself suggests that Molly invited them in thinking that one of them was Harry.  Pick your poison.  Whatever the eldest fetches role in Winter is, he works for Maeve as much as Mab.  To have Mab pulling his strings you have to account for Glau and the attack at the Fool Moon garage.  And if he was a valued servitor why did Mab allow Harry to kill him, since she was apparently present when Harry scorched his behind?

Mab quits speaking in Small Favor because she has learned that Maeve has been infected.(Cold Days)  She doesn't speak directly to Harry again until after he becomes the Winter Knight.(Changes)

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2019, 12:28:27 PM »
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Both groups share a similar problem, how do you  create a portal to Arctis Tor? And then how do you get away?

They could have travelled through the Nevernever, or have been working with someone strong enough to put a portal wherever they liked, or had the time to set up an area specifically to have the correct resonances.

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Harry in effect invited the fetches past the threshold when he set them upon Molly.

Harry doesn't have the ability to invite anyone past the Carpenters' threshold, because he doesn't live in the house.

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Harry himself suggests that Molly invited them in thinking that one of them was Harry.

We have WoJ that she didn't and that the fetch just muscled through.

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nd if he was a valued servitor why did Mab allow Harry to kill him, since she was apparently present when Harry scorched his behind?

Because we have WoJ that Mab would allow everyone in Winter to be killed if it served her purpose--one guy doesn't signify.

Offline toodeep

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2019, 02:24:24 PM »
Little Chicago was fixed in the same book Arctis Tor was attacked.  Arctis Tor was specifically made to look weak by Mab to lure her enemies into a costly frontal assault.  After that she is cleaning up for the next few books now that their main strength is weakened.  How does she lure them in?  She sends her most obvious known forces away.  Who is her hole card?  TT Harry.  I don't know if he fixed little Chicago before or after the fight at Arctis Tor, but since we already suspect he was in the area for that fixing Little Chicago, why not look at what other purposes being in that time could accomplish?

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2019, 03:04:10 PM »
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Little Chicago was fixed in the same book Arctis Tor was attacked.  Arctis Tor was specifically made to look weak by Mab to lure her enemies into a costly frontal assault.  After that she is cleaning up for the next few books now that their main strength is weakened.  How does she lure them in?  She sends her most obvious known forces away.  Who is her hole card?  TT Harry.  I don't know if he fixed little Chicago before or after the fight at Arctis Tor, but since we already suspect he was in the area for that fixing Little Chicago, why not look at what other purposes being in that time could accomplish?

If he was dealing with the attack on Arctis Tor after fixing Little Chicago, then that resolves my issues with TT!Harry being the one to fix it.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2019, 04:31:28 PM »
@morriswalters
The attack at Arctis Tor left thousands dead, including ALL Winter defenders. There is not a soul alive that isn’t involved in the Molly/ Fetch plot or is a prisoner in the Garden (or Mab). How does this mirror what Harry did apart from throwing around hellfire? Harry’s was a surgical strike, the assault was.... an assault that blew through the front gates.

My read on what happened is that yes, Mab was likely able to get away/ hide out in the Garden during the assault - this is the reason the assault failed. That was one of the things the attack was trying to accomplish (kill/ imprison/ Nfect Mab) - but since they didn’t have a necro-god on their side, they were unable to fully breach the fortress - they weren’t able to get to the Wellspring before the castle defenses/ Mab/ TT Harry were able to rout the attackers. We still don’t know if any of the bones present belonged to the attacking party - Harry only comments on the goblins/ trolls.

Mab isn’t quaking in fear at the Garden because she has won at this point. If Mab has been undefended for so long, are the few minutes she spends with Harry really the opening they needed? Surely Mab travels around quite a bit especially since she’s down a WK, her #2 & her Lady has not been doing her job for 150 years. In fact her behavior with Harry during that conversation in DB seems to show that her biggest issue is curing Lea. The next time Harry actually talks to Mab, she needs a translator.

I understand the theory of how Maeve could have been behind the Fetches - it’s a good one. I just prefer the one where Mab sends them. Think about it this way - what was the point of Harry going to Arctis Tor? Kidnapping Molly & bringing her to post-devastation Arctis Tor would only serve to bring Harry & possibly her KotC father in to save her (that Charity comes instead doesn’t really change things since steel was able to neutralize some of the Fae advantage like the Swords do). How does this serve the BC? If Mab is triumphant at Arctis Tor, why is the Fetch able to do anything to Molly? Surely in the seat of her power, she could dispatch the Scarecrow with ease.

The killing of Eldest Fetch could be explained by its failure at its job as Mab’s spymaster - it failed in SK, with Lea & Maeve. Mab doesn’t abide weakness/ incompetence. If Harry is not formidable enough to take out the Fetch (he will have to battle even great foes as WK), then perhaps he is the wrong choice as Mab’s Knight.

Perhaps the Scarecrow killed Glau first because Mab knows he is the link to the BC, hence the more dangerous between him & Madrigal. Mab also doesn’t know of Harry’s allegiances fully yet - he has met with Maeve & Lily so who knows if he’s been drinking their Kool-Aid.

Offline kbrizzle

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2019, 04:36:24 PM »
@nadia
Agreed on the portal. Surely a Russian wizard wouldn’t have to come to Chicago to open a way to Arctis Tor....

I do recall that WoJ about the Fetch muscling through. Wasn’t sure if Michael’s family always had angelic protection or it only started upon retirement.

@toodeep
The theory that Mab allowed the attack works much better if she’s got an ace in the hole like TT Harry.

@g33k
Agreed Elaine could definitely have done it for all the reasons you’ve listed. I’m still not convinced about her loyalties.

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2019, 07:45:09 PM »
They could have travelled through the Nevernever, or have been working with someone strong enough to put a portal wherever they liked, or had the time to set up an area specifically to have the correct resonances.
Thus Pell's Theater.

As an aside about thresholds.  If that is true then thresholds are pretty much moot at this point.  What's the point?

@kbrizzle
I need to clarify something for myself before we continue.  Exactly when do you think the attack took place? 
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I understand the theory of how Maeve could have been behind the Fetches - it’s a good one. I just prefer the one where Mab sends them. Think about it this way - what was the point of Harry going to Arctis Tor? Kidnapping Molly & bringing her to post-devastation Arctis Tor would only serve to bring Harry & possibly her KotC father in to save her (that Charity comes instead doesn’t really change things since steel was able to neutralize some of the Fae advantage like the Swords do). How does this serve the BC? If Mab is triumphant at Arctis Tor, why is the Fetch able to do anything to Molly? Surely in the seat of her power, she could dispatch the Scarecrow with ease.
I've already offered you an explanation.  I'll clarify.  Bringing Molly to Arctis Tor throws suspicion on Mab.  It makes her look mad.  Which is the narrative that Maeve will sell until she is killed.  Mab is looking for footprints that will lead her to the person who got the attackers in close to Arctis Tor.  She knows Lea was compromised and she suspects others.  Aurora was her first shock, then Lea and finally the attack at Arctis Tor.  She needs to know so she lets it play out at her fortress.  Her one active move, if you believe she was behind it, was to feed Harry information through a source who Harry trusts.  After that she would see it all.  The attacks at the Fool Moon garage and at the Con.  The phages attack on Michael's home, the location of the portal and Maeve's actions.  My guess is that this is the moment when she realizes that Maeve has been compromised. There are others but for this I'll go with this.







Offline g33k

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Re: Motivation for fixing Little Chicago?
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2019, 05:26:47 AM »
@g33k
Agreed Elaine could definitely have done it for all the reasons you’ve listed. I’m still not convinced about her loyalties.

Convinced?  You want to be convinced?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaa!

And Jim Butcher has a bridge he wants to sell you...

Seriously, I'm not gonna be "convinced" of bloody much until the Dresden Files is complete!  Given the TT/MM/etc shenanigans that we are ALREADY confident Butcher will be up to, locking down the facts of who did what, and when, and why... All subject to later Big Reveal revision.   All of it.

Here, have another off-the-wall theory:  after loosing Michael at a mere 72 years of age, an embittered Charity takes up magic again, seeking to cheat Time and Death alike.

Kumori is TT Charity Carpenter.

Totally works!  Totally.

 :-X