Author Topic: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to  (Read 10472 times)

Offline ClintACK

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 09:08:58 PM »
And... I'd love to know how the Merlin told the tale of Chichen Itza. Did Harry get credit? Was he known to be dead when the final story was being told, so he was a martyr? Or was it all about members of the Senior Council leading a daring raid on the Red Court's stronghold?

Offline Hankthemoose

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2019, 06:52:28 PM »
And... I'd love to know how the Merlin told the tale of Chichen Itza. Did Harry get credit? Was he known to be dead when the final story was being told, so he was a martyr? Or was it all about members of the Senior Council leading a daring raid on the Red Court's stronghold?

The Merlin was not at Chichen Itza. It was the Grey Council, headed by Eb or Vadderung. They were not under orders from the WC, and were acting on their own initiative. The Merlin would not have told any tale. Instead, he would have simply listened to confused news reports, and inferred what he could from what he knew. The wizards who participated would not have told anyone who they were, because this would expose them.

Offline ClintACK

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 11:12:29 PM »
Are you sure he wasn't?

The Merlin told Harry that he (the Merlin) and a bunch of the most powerful WC members were preparing a counterstrike, to end the Red Court permanently.

Eb told Harry to come to the meeting to meet the rest of the gang preparing for a counterstrike to end the Red Court permanently.

Later, Eb and Vadderung and a bunch of unidentified powerful spellcasters show up and launch that "counterstrike" in response to Harry's information.

It seems very, very likely that the Merlin's overwhelming counterstrike plans and Eb's overwhelming counterstrike plans are one and the same. It would be really odd if the Merlin were planning that strike without including Eb, and they'd otherwise be drawing on a bunch of the same wizards like Rashid and Luccio and getting in each other's way.

Heck, Eb's opening line is: "The Merlin is preparing his counterstrike, and we're trying to find out how much they already know about it."

And when Harry doesn't show up for the meeting -- because he's unconscious with a broken back -- Eb says: "There are people in the Grey Council who think you aren't to be trusted. They're very, very wary of you."

That seems like a pretty clear reference to the Merlin.

Offline g33k

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 11:38:35 PM »
...
And when Harry doesn't show up for the meeting -- because he's unconscious with a broken back -- Eb says: "There are people in the Grey Council who think you aren't to be trusted. They're very, very wary of you."

That seems like a pretty clear reference to the Merlin.

1.  I generally agree that the odds are high for the WC/GC "counterstrike" as the same event; not a certainty, but very high.

2.  I think /MANY/ wizards are "very, very wary" of Harry Dresden.  I think the Merlin has already decided AGAINST Harry (and isn't a member of the GC, only the WC).

Offline Hankthemoose

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2019, 12:15:48 PM »
Are you sure he wasn't?

The Merlin told Harry that he (the Merlin) and a bunch of the most powerful WC members were preparing a counterstrike, to end the Red Court permanently.

Eb told Harry to come to the meeting to meet the rest of the gang preparing for a counterstrike to end the Red Court permanently.

Later, Eb and Vadderung and a bunch of unidentified powerful spellcasters show up and launch that "counterstrike" in response to Harry's information.

It seems very, very likely that the Merlin's overwhelming counterstrike plans and Eb's overwhelming counterstrike plans are one and the same. It would be really odd if the Merlin were planning that strike without including Eb, and they'd otherwise be drawing on a bunch of the same wizards like Rashid and Luccio and getting in each other's way.

Heck, Eb's opening line is: "The Merlin is preparing his counterstrike, and we're trying to find out how much they already know about it."

And when Harry doesn't show up for the meeting -- because he's unconscious with a broken back -- Eb says: "There are people in the Grey Council who think you aren't to be trusted. They're very, very wary of you."

That seems like a pretty clear reference to the Merlin.

I can't imagine why you think that. The Merlin is a conservative, and very strongly opposed to division in the WC. The existence of the GC is a threat to his power and the unity of the WC. If he was aware of it, he would immediately denounce it as a conspiracy against him. Also, if the Merlin sanctioned the strike, there would be no need to use the GC at all, or to wear the hoods upon arrival.

They could simply have shown up as the WC with as many wardens as they could rustle up, plus their allies. The Merlin could have easily claimed credit for the entire venture to secure his political power, and to bolster the WCs power and influence.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 12:18:08 PM by Hankthemoose »

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2019, 03:45:58 PM »
There is a reason governments have covert operations they keep secrets for decades. The Merlin might want to use the GC as such.

I don't agree with this theory, but it is plausible.

Offline Hankthemoose

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2019, 03:53:09 PM »
You wouldn't hide the fact that you wiped out your enemy, that you were at war with, with your secret strike force. You use a secret covert ops organisation to gather intelligence and kill rivals that you're technically allied with, not to fight a declared war and then give credit to your political rivals.

The Merlin is portrayed as a bone-deep political creature. The idea that he would both fail to take credit, and allow a political loose cannon ne'er do well benefit violates who he is as a character.

There is a reason everyone knew about Seal Team 6 the moment Osama Bin Laden got killed.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 03:58:19 PM by Hankthemoose »

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2019, 06:28:48 PM »
The Merlin may have known or suspected that destroying the RC would cause all sorts of chaos and be hiding from that. If acceptable levels of  chaos had resulted, the Merlin would reveal that it was a Seal Team Six situation. If the levels of chaos were unacceptable, then it wasn't a WC sanctioned operation. Additionally, he was already working behind Cristos' back. One reason to use covert operators is because one is operating beyond his authority.

Offline Hankthemoose

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2019, 10:44:28 AM »
Right, but the Merlin does have authority to do that kind of thing.

I just have yet to hear anything that gives me any good reason to think the Merlin would be on the GC, and it doesn't make sense to me that he would be. I suppose Jim will let us know eventually.

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2019, 07:44:41 PM »
I don't see it either. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

Does the Merlin have the authority to act unilaterally? We really don't know much about how the White Council actually works. We know a few things. It is a direct democracy with an elected committee (the Senior Council) that handles executive functions/administrative matters and can reserve decisions to itself in some situations (maybe all). The suffrage is universal among wizards. The Council governs mortals. The committee is a gerontocracy, but only by tradition (it isn't an actual rule). The members of the committee can vote by proxy. The committee chair (the Merlin) has the proxies by default if a member is absent, but hasn't selected a proxy. All members of the committee must vote before a decision has been reached. This gives each member a veto/filibuster like a power. We know the Seven Laws of Magic, but not any lesser rules governing the lives of wizards. We know the Council governs it's members' interactions with other supernatural groups, but not to what extent. We know that their are laws regarding treason. We don't know whether or not the Council has authority to govern other areas of the wizards life, and, if that authority exists, to what extent.

Offline isoycrazy

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2019, 10:34:23 AM »
Eb meeting Maggie and the baby of Thomas would be a nice moment. 

Listen to Winds having a small service if Little Brother has died.  It's been over 10 years.  If he is alive, Little Brother meeting Mister and Mouse.

Toot and Lacuna dating.

Harry meeting the Erlking in another fun event for Summer.

Ivy reveals she has a facebook account.

Will introducing Harry to Game of Thrones.

Offline Monkez

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2019, 06:11:55 AM »
May be plot related, but I'm looking forward to Molly's arrival and watching the senior council, Merlin in particular, squirm when they realize they almost executed her and she knows it. :)

That and a "winter is coming" reference. ☺
You keep using that word....  I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline Con

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2019, 08:07:05 AM »
Lol 'winter is coming.

I know its been mentioned but Eb and Thomas.

Murphy and Harry dating banter.

Bonnea and exploration of her character and personality. Jim has said same rules as Bob, but Bob is Bob because Harry picked him up as a horny teenager. So don't know how that'll compare to Bonnea who theoretically has all the same information as Lash, who was a bit of a sex fiend herself.

Carlos Ramirez particularly him with Molly and his reaction.

White/Senior Council in General. Especially Rashid.

Kringle/Vadderung.

Offline ticonderouga

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2019, 05:17:29 PM »
Murphy soulgazing Harry, because that is just long overdue.
Langtry's reaction to the new Winter Lady.
And seeing Murphy becoming Maggie's favorite aunt.

Offline g33k

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Re: Non-plot moments you're most looking forward to
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2019, 07:26:59 PM »
I can't imagine why you think that. The Merlin is a conservative, and very strongly opposed to division in the WC. The existence of the GC is a threat to his power and the unity of the WC. If he was aware of it, he would immediately denounce it as a conspiracy against him. Also, if the Merlin sanctioned the strike, there would be no need to use the GC at all, or to wear the hoods upon arrival.

They could simply have shown up as the WC with as many wardens as they could rustle up, plus their allies. The Merlin could have easily claimed credit for the entire venture to secure his political power, and to bolster the WCs power and influence.

I think the GC showed up to fight the Ramps, and so did the WC...

I think it looked an awful lot like "WC, mostly wardens, with a bunch of allies, and personal assets" (eg Eb claimed to be "owed a favor" by the Kenku/Tengu).  Anyone/anything NOT on the WC was "just an ally of" the WC, or of a WC member.

Nobody REALLY knew the Ramps were going to be utterly destroyed -- showing up in hoods/disguises is a perfectly valid precaution against presumed retaliation, and the WC doesn't need to know every detail of every personal asset, do they?

So, it could still be a "joint" WC/GC operation, with the WC remaining ignorant of the GC's involvement (or even existence).