Author Topic: Hellfire as two powers  (Read 337 times)

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Hellfire as two powers
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 09:28:38 PM »
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Control bonuses being as important as they are, I feel like a power-only Sponsored Magic probably wouldn't be worth taking.

Yeah, that's an issue. Hellfire is like that anyway in the RAW, though, so I thought that adding a power that allows you not to lose power from fallout would mitigate the downsides, and make it an asset.

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Sure, I'd be interested.

Okay. A brief summary of my modified rules: Evocation and thaumaturgy are completely separate from what kind of magic you can use--if you want to use fire magic for evocation and thaumaturgy, you buy a collection of types of magic that include it (in this case, philosophical magic, although you could classify it under thematic magic, and there are other options available for focussed practitioners and sorcerers that I'm not including). Because of this, you use the same set of refinement bonuses for both evocation and thaumaturgy.

There are three categories of refinement bonuses: power, discipline, and complexity. Power is the weapons value, complexity is the special effects (duration, seeing through your own veils, stuff like that), and you have to role discipline that's as high as the combined value of your spell's power and complexity. Also, refinement bonuses for discipline don't count towards aiming your spell unless you specify that specifically (ie however much you want to add to your aiming roll, once you get above your flat discipline skill, those shifts don't add to controlling power and complexity). Harry is a high-power wizard; Elaine is a high-discipline wizard; Molly is a high-complexity wizard.

Also, crafting is a separate power, and runs off of your resources, crafting, and lore skills.

Here is a list of all the wizard powers:

[-1] evocation
[-1] thaumaturgy
[-3] philosophical magic
[-3] functional magic
[-3] thematic magic
[-3] crafting
[-1] the sight/soulgaze

The -magic powers cost so much because you can stack their bonuses--if you're casting a spell that fits into a particular philosophy, a particular function, and a particular theme, then you can use the combined bonuses of all three. Crafting is -3 because you don't have to buy enchanted item slots separately (it also has its own set of bonuses, but this post is already going to be long enough).

Refinement has been modified also: you get three points to divide up as you choose, and an automatic enchanted item slot for each refinement.

Back to soulfire/hellfire. The idea behind this power came out of my remembering that Bob said at the end of White Night that people regularly put a bit of their souls into their magic. As such, this power is meant to be self-generated based on the depth and breadth of your understanding of magic, rather than something given to you by the forces of heaven or hell. As such, while you qualify as a White Council wizard with only one of philosophical/functional/thematic magics, you need all three in order to buy this power. You also need to have at least four refinements, inhuman mental toughness, and to have spent at least two refresh on separate powers that reflect a deeper understanding of magic.

So, after all of that, here's the power:

Hellfire/Soulfire combination [-5]:

You can use both hellfire and soulfire. You cannot, however, use both at once. All bonuses from either stack. You can buy refinements up to the length of your soul stress track for both hellfire and soulfire (i.e. if your soul stress track has 2 boxes, you can buy 2 refinements for hellfire and 2 for soulfire).

Both: For each stress box used, your spell gains +2 resistance to supernatural methods of countering/+2 duration (whichever applicable) in addition to other benefits from stress. The soul stress track cannot be used to absorb backlash.

Soulfire: Spells supercharged with soulfire get an automatic bonus of either +1 power and +1 discipline, or +2 complexity. If you attack someone with soulfire, treat any toughness powers as if they were one step lower. Refinements can be allocated to either power/discipline (one refinement adds +1 to both) or complexity (one refinement adds +2)

Hellfire: Spells supercharged with hellfire get an automatic bonus of +2 power and +1 discipline. If you inflict stress or consequences on someone using hellfire, they recover as if their injuries were one step more severe (i.e. stress recovers like a minor consequence, a minor consequence recovers like a moderate consequence, etc.) and treat any recovery power they have as if it were one step lower. Refinements can be allocated to either power (one refinement adds +2) or discipline/complexity (one refinement adds +1 to both).

What do you think?

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: Hellfire as two powers
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2019, 07:29:41 PM »
Yeah, that's an issue. Hellfire is like that anyway in the RAW, though, so I thought that adding a power that allows you not to lose power from fallout would mitigate the downsides, and make it an asset.

Canon Hellfire gives a free power bonus, but it doesn't do anything to stop you from buying control bonuses.

Okay. A brief summary of my modified rules...

What do you think?

It's interesting. Hard to say more based on a quick summary.

I'm inclined to suspect that the complexity would be a problem if this was implemented in the game as a whole, but that's probably not an issue for your purposes.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 06:31:23 PM by Sanctaphrax »

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Hellfire as two powers
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2019, 02:58:52 PM »
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Canon Hellfire gives a free power bonus, but it doesn't do anything to\ stop you from buying control bonuses.

Ah. That makes sense.

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I'm inclined to suspect that the complexity would be a problem if this was implemented in the game as a whole, but that's probably not an issue for your purposes.

Yes. The real problem is that it risks making wizards even more OP than the RAW does, given the amount of stacking possible at high refresh. I've tried to balance it with the higher refresh cost and the added difficulty of getting aiming bonuses, but I still suspect that the real balance is going to be that everyone at a high enough level either has magic resistance or some degree of magic themselves.

Offline nadia.skylark

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Re: Hellfire as two powers
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 06:31:24 PM »
Has anyone here read the Obsidian Trilogy? I think its Wild Magic would be perfect for a Heaven-sponsored magic, but I'm not sure how to write it up or how much it should cost.