Author Topic: Any news on Peace Talks  (Read 174791 times)

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #480 on: November 16, 2019, 03:33:58 AM »
Priscillie has read the finished, publishable novel.
I doubt her copy had been copy edited (edited for grammar and such) and proofread yet (for clean pagination and such).

That reminds me of some stuff I noticed in my last reading of Blood Rites. I think it might be the worst (copy) edited book of the DF. I noticed so many mistakes (for a Penguin book, at least). The funniest one was "Harry said" instead of "I said."

Offline prince lotore

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #481 on: November 19, 2019, 09:08:18 PM »
apparently if you call up penguin and ask they will tell you
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Offline Wondering Wanderer

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #482 on: November 19, 2019, 10:03:01 PM »
Soooo, still time to do a leisurely series reread if you didn't already do it, say twice, since Skin Game was a year old. . .

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #483 on: November 19, 2019, 11:24:09 PM »
apparently if you call up penguin and ask they will tell you
(click to show/hide)

Well, that's not in time for my birthday. Maybe it will be several months earlier.

Offline 123Chikadee

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #484 on: November 20, 2019, 12:08:27 AM »
Oh that's past my birthday. At this rate then, it's a just treat myself gift.

Offline g33k

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #485 on: November 20, 2019, 12:43:52 AM »
apparently if you call up penguin and ask they will tell you
(click to show/hide)

Huh.  That seems... odd.  Why has Jim's editor not told Jim, and Jim not told his fans?

Maybe that's just a rough-guesstimate placeholder, pending some imponderables; and rando-customer-service-worker just reported it, not realizing it as only a guess.

Or maybe it's brand-brand-new info, that hasn't wended its way through the Normal Channels, and we'll get it in a few days...
 
Maybe someone who knows someone who knows Jim (add layers of knowlege as needed) can kick this back up the ladder, and Jim can WTF his editor?
 

Offline Arjan

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #486 on: November 20, 2019, 06:00:06 AM »
Well, that's not in time for my birthday. Maybe it will be several months earlier.
That is my birthday  :)
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Offline Wolfeyes

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #487 on: November 20, 2019, 06:27:30 AM »
Well dang. I guess I have an excuse to finally listen to the audiobooks for a reread...

Offline morriswalters

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #488 on: November 20, 2019, 02:16:23 PM »
More of the same.  No one voice, just noise.  Ima go do this, Ima gonna do that.  It was floating around on Reddit that a publishing date was decided on.  It makes them look like amateurs.  The hype machine probably wants to make several announcements at once, but they can't keep a secret.

Offline Kindler

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #489 on: November 20, 2019, 07:49:49 PM »
I doubt her copy had been copy edited (edited for grammar and such) and proofread yet (for clean pagination and such).

That reminds me of some stuff I noticed in my last reading of Blood Rites. I think it might be the worst (copy) edited book of the DF. I noticed so many mistakes (for a Penguin book, at least). The funniest one was "Harry said" instead of "I said."

Copy editing + pagination is the shortest step in the process. When I did it professionally, a Peace Talks-length book would be the work of about two weeks, if I really dragged my feet. That includes generating the clean EPUB/MOBI/AZW3 files for eBook sales, laying out the document for printing, adjusting the kerning if they went with justified text (I'm a ragged-right proponent, because kerning blows—but eBooks are justified by default, so you have to do it anyway), etc. I had to learn HTML to make sure the eBooks were formatted nicely. I've read some pirated copies of Jim's books (I had already purchased the eBook iterations, but needed EPUBs with no DRM so I could copy + paste from it for some presentations on modern novels; I'd never steal from Jim). All of them had some of the worst formatting errors I'd ever seen. They looked like they were copied and pasted from PDFs.

For those who don't know, PDFs are a fixed-layout file format. No matter what screen size you're using, page 53 will always be page 53; you have to zoom in/out and scroll around to view it if you're looking at one on a phone. EPUBs are dynamic; they scale down to whatever you're reading on (a few years ago, they tried to roll out a fixed-layout EPUB, but it never took off because it's a terrible concept). But anyway, word processors tend to interpret all of the formatting in a PDF precisely. So the end of a line in a PDF will get a hard line break when you copy and paste it into Microsoft Word. That means you have all of these weird paragraphs with random breaks spread across a whole document. It's a real pain to clean that kind of thing up (there is no quick fix; you have to go through it and delete the breaks, fix the spacing, etc.)

Anyway, about 90% of the pirated books I've looked at (again, I owned them all already, it was only done for presentation purposes, hand to God) have been formatting horror shows. One of the copies for one of the Codex Alera books lacked quotation marks throughout the whole text. Some of the books had the infamous "I don't know what this character is supposed to be" blank, empty squares all over the place (some of the conversion programs and OCRs have trouble interpreting various punctuation marks if the fonts aren't Times New Roman (and some even if it is TNR)).

But anywho, when you have a Word document to start with, on the other hand, formatting everything perfectly is easy as heck. The only sticky parts are when you have images within the main document (children's books and cookbooks are annoying that way). But pure text? Pshaw. It can be done nicely in an afternoon. Unless, you know, Jim does things like manually press "Enter" twenty times to start a new page (page breaks, people. Ctrl+Enter.) Widows and orphans, adjusting the hyphenation, kerning, all that stuff can be done pretty fast.

I seem to have wandered a bit. The point is that Penguin should be done with that whole process by now, especially because (I assume and hope) they have multiple specialists working on each part. Still has to be done in stages (widows and orphans can fix themselves, justification changes when characters are added or deleted, etc.) but specialists can usually do their one task efficiently. It's been a month since Priscillie announced it, and I'd assume Penguin had it before her. Should be set by now, or close enough that it's not worth considering.

And as for copy editing mistakes: there is no such thing as a perfect document, not now, not ever. Any editor can look at any document and find things to change or mistakes to fix. The trick is to catch the ones that anyone would notice. Questionable comma placement is one thing, but mess up the tensing and everyone will say, "Gotcha!"

I caught the Blood Rites "Harry" mistake too, and rolled my eyes when I saw it. Whoever edits Terry Brooks's novels should be fired, for that matter, because all of his novels have extremely noticeable mistakes. I'm currently reading The Witcher novels (finally, I've been putting it off for years). Whoever is responsible for editing the translated text needs to learn how semicolons should be used, because they're all over the place. Not one has been correct, but they've all been wrong for different reasons.

Offline TrueMonk

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #490 on: November 20, 2019, 09:38:59 PM »
So both amazon, a danish bookstore and some other place has set the release date to 16th of April. Is that just because one of them guessed and the others are copying?
https://www.amazon.com/Peace-Talks-Dresden-Files-Sixteen-ebook/dp/B07SZLRHMT
https://www.saxo.com/dk/peace-talks_jim-butcher_hardback_9780356500911
https://www.risingshadow.net/library/book/43381-peace-talks

Offline Dina

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #491 on: November 21, 2019, 12:15:30 AM »
I am sad to disappoint you, but I believe Amazon has said so long before de book was finished, so it is not very reliable. But... Who knows? Perhaps they knew...
Missing you, Md 

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Offline Bad Alias

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #492 on: November 21, 2019, 01:06:49 AM »
I've read some pirated copies of Jim's books (I had already purchased the eBook iterations, but needed EPUBs with no DRM so I could copy + paste from it for some presentations on modern novels; I'd never steal from Jim).

...

But anyway, word processors tend to interpret all of the formatting in a PDF precisely. So the end of a line in a PDF will get a hard line break when you copy and paste it into Microsoft Word. That means you have all of these weird paragraphs with random breaks spread across a whole document. It's a real pain to clean that kind of thing up (there is no quick fix; you have to go through it and delete the breaks, fix the spacing, etc.)
I remove the DRM protections from any epub I get my hands on. I've pulled all the short stories out and put them in there own epub file. I've also changed the names of the books (and short stories) so that they are in chronological order (First Fistful of Warlocks to that most recent Christmas story that I haven't done yet).

I have to copy information from some actual real physical documents for new documents for work. Actually did it today. OCR on scanners has gotten a lot better, but a lot of those problems still come up. On the one today 1/2" appeared in the document three or four times. The OCR got it right once. I also come across a lot of forms that are part of a paper that are pdfs. Point being, I've done the whole turn a pdf into a word doc thing a few times. It's all still so much quicker than transcribing it.

Offline Kindler

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #493 on: November 21, 2019, 04:07:22 PM »
Oh yeah, there's a reason I went through the obnoxiousness of doing it that way. When I'm dealing with 150k word documents, I'm not going to spend several eight-hour days typing everything out.

And to be fair, the latest iteration of the Adobe Cloud suite's Acrobat Pro does a reasonably good job of exporting PDF to Word. Still get a lot of the line break weirdness, and God help you if there are any design-y elements, but at least most of the paragraphs remain, you know, paragraphs. The thing with the quotation marks often depends on whether or not the original document used the fancy "smart quotes," which are stylized and curve toward the enclosed word (the ones in this post do not have smart quotes, so they'd be fine about 95% of the time).

I was doing this as a side gig about 10-11 years ago, when eBooks were still in their infancy. Sigil wasn't released yet, and Calibre didn't have any editing capability at the time (if it even supported EPUBs, I can't really remember). Big chunks of the work was done using Word's HTML editing. I don't know if that's possible in Office 365 anymore—at least, not like it used to be. Back then, a lot of the publishers I'd worked with were still using PageMaker or Quark. InDesign had replaced both pretty completely in terms of feature offerings years earlier. Publishers have never been precisely quick on the uptake of new things, though.

So, they'd lay these books out in PageMaker, and refuse to provide me with the source document—neither the Quark or the PM file, nor the Word/WordPerfect/Scrivener/whateverthehell the author used ("PROPRIETARY," they'd shout. "YOU COULDN'T POSSIBLY NEED THAT!!!") I'd have to make do with the PDFs they provided. Thus did I venture boldly into the unknown field of eBook preparation.

At the time, I was freelancing as a writer/editor, and it was a random gig I was offered by one of my clients (these are smaller publishers, before most of them got eaten by Penguin, Harlequin, and the other few Last Men Standing). Sort of a, "Hey, can you turn this document into one of those electronic books?"

I kinda knew what I was doing, but not really. But when you freelance, there's no such thing as a job you can't do. "Sure, I've done that plenty of times! Send over the file, and I'll give you an estimate." That night, I downloaded a ton of software to see if I could find a solution that's basically automated, but none existed. It was pure grunt work. The next three weeks were dedicated to learning HTML as I went, which was easier than I thought it'd be (syntax, yo). I had to learn all about the ways PDF screws you over. But hey, I got it done, and the publisher paid more for that job than they ever did for editing. That's the value of a totally separate skill set, I guess. So I started offering that to these small publishing houses looking to break into this whole "digital book" thing.

Now that whole job would be just about done just during the editing phase. As long as your breaks are in all the right places and you use MS Word styles correctly, generating a clean EPUB or MOBI is pretty much a matter of file conversion. Can take a little finagling, but not much, and you can do spot-fixes quickly in Sigil. So they can do the print layout in Word or whatever for the most part, and can basically just convert that source file to whatever you want.

Kids these days have it easy, I tell ya huwhat.

Offline spiritofair

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Re: Any news on Peace Talks
« Reply #494 on: November 21, 2019, 06:39:15 PM »
In other words, as I suspected, there is absolutely no excuse not to publish a book quickly after it is done.

If we have to wait until July, then either the book isn't actually done (which seems unlikely), the editor at Penguin is absolutely buried or on sabbatical or something, Penguin wants to wait for some crazy indecipherable reason, or Penguin is incompetent.