Mab thought she was doing the right thing

[forumghost]

Or the point was to remove Aurora and replace her with a less experienced Summer Lady.  The question is what was the goal?  To have a war between the Queens or to destroy the well? If Mab can plan for multiple paths to success, then one might assume that Nemesis could do so as well.  So a failure in one leads to the other.

I mean, I'm sure that there were multiple goals but...

If we assume that Maeve was already Nemesis'd then that means that, by having her simply not intervene to save Harry:

1) Aurora Succeeds in throwing all reality into Chaos
2) Titania (who hadn't cottoned on yet) fulfills her duty and drags Mab into hell, probably dying in the process.
3) Aurora and Maeve (who are both supposedly Nemesis'd) become The Queens.
4) Outsiders win for all time.

So either Nemesis gave up a Guaranteed win now for a 'maybe' win later, or maybe... Maeve wasn't gotten to yet?

Well I think the problem might be that Mab placed a Nemesis infected agent within Winter's Wellspring.  It is true that it helped cure Lea but it may also be true that it left a taint that might end up coming back to bite her.

I think it is something that can work both ways though. If Nemesis could somehow taint and get an advantage via Wellspring, there may be a back door way back to it via the Wellspring too.

That's possible I suppose, but Jim has noted that there are upper limits to what Nemesis can mess with (No Angels for example).

So fucking with the wellspring may be beyond it.

[morriswalters]

I mean, I'm sure that there were multiple goals but...

One goal, multiple paths.  And in the Dresdenverse there are no guaranteed wins.  Not for Mab or Nemesis.  Or Harry.  However you are probably right.

[Mira]

The right thing to do may have been to destroy Leah.....  There may not be an actual cure, only a way to slow it down, or stop it for a little while.

Let's not forget that Mab also encased herself in ice, precaution against the infection or did she feel symptoms herself at the time.

[groinkick]

Let's not forget that Mab also encased herself in ice, precaution against the infection or did she feel symptoms herself at the time.

Was she in ice?  I thought she was pretending to be a statue.  Perhaps she did become Nemfected?  I don't know.  Jim said Nemesis isn't all powerful, Mab may be too powerful for It to control her.

[vultur]

Well wasn't Maeve already infected when Leah was at Arctis Tor?

She must have been, because PG is when Maeve talks about Mab being crazy... in CD Harry and Fix talk about that as an example of Maeve lying.

Was she in ice?  I thought she was pretending to be a statue.  Perhaps she did become Nemfected?  I don't know.  Jim said Nemesis isn't all powerful, Mab may be too powerful for It to control her.

Whether Mab could be infected or not, I'm certain she wasn't, for at least two reasons:
- if she was, reality would be either destroyed or much more Outsider-ridden than it is
- if she was infected at the time of PG specifically, she wouldn't have been trying to cure Lea of Nemesis

It seems like Mab really should be "infect-able", as I'm not sure the power gap between Lea and Mab is that large, but OTOH if she is "infect-able", why did Lea mess with Maeve rather than going straight to Mab?

And Mab has the athame in DB. So maybe she really isn't vulnerable... who knows.

Maybe Mab is more powerful than I'm imagining... there is a WoJ that Mab vs the Erlking wouldn't even be much of a fight, but that the Erlking "could probably hand Molly her head" (IE - stronger than one of the Faerie Ladies). I tend to imagine Lea as closer to Mab than the Winter Lady in power, but could she win a fight vs the Erlking? Quite possibly not...

[peregrine]

I wouldn't really read too much into Mab having the athame.  Almost certainly if she can cure Lea, she can purge the infection from the knife.

[Mira]

I wouldn't really read too much into Mab having the athame.  Almost certainly if she can cure Lea, she can purge the infection from the knife.

Perhaps, but it is interesting that after Dead Beat we no longer see her wearing it.  Also if she was so aware of it's dangers why did it take her so long to suspect that her daughter may have become infected from it?  True, Maeve had been acting batshit crazy for a while, but I think it took a now sane Lea to tell her who had had contact with the Knife before she realized.

[Wizard Sibelis]

Perhaps, but it is interesting that after Dead Beat we no longer see her wearing it.  Also if she was so aware of it's dangers why did it take her so long to suspect that her daughter may have become infected from it?  True, Maeve had been acting batshit crazy for a while, but I think it took a now sane Lea to tell her who had had contact with the Knife before she realized.

that's an ad libbed statement. Mab found out during, iirc PG, because of how Maeve acted in the grand chess board wasn't pro winter. We've never heard of Lea telling Mab this.

[groinkick]

Perhaps, but it is interesting that after Dead Beat we no longer see her wearing it. 

Wasn't it in a sheet of ice upon her hip?  Perhaps this was a way of preventing Nemfection from spreading to her, and she was keeping it close to prevent anyone else from getting it back.

[Wizard Sibelis]

Wasn't it in a sheet of ice upon her hip?  Perhaps this was a way of preventing Nemfection from spreading to her, and she was keeping it close to prevent anyone else from getting it back.

I thought she was simply wearing it... and she was wearing it specifically when she showed up as "leah" for Harry I think? I think she wore it cause she had to with the equivalence factor of taking it/confining leah.

[morriswalters]

In Dead Beat Mab knew that Lea had attempted to resist her power, but may not have known that the athame had been used to corrupt Lea.  By the start of Proven Guilty she is aware that both Lea and Maeve are infected.  And in Cold Days she tells Harry how both were infected.

We get a better look at how JB sees the infection working in Cold Days when he confronts Cat Sith on the barge at the island.  In the passage Harry makes Cat Sith aware of his, I'll call it a rider.  Sith struggles but loses and his personality is destroyed.  From this I infer that Cat Sith did not know he was infected

[Arjan]

In Dead Beat Mab knew that Lea had attempted to resist her power, but may not have known that the athame had been used to corrupt Lea.  By the start of Proven Guilty she is aware that both Lea and Maeve are infected.  And in Cold Days she tells Harry how both were infected.

We get a better look at how JB sees the infection working in Cold Days when he confronts Cat Sith on the barge at the island.  In the passage Harry makes Cat Sith aware of his, I'll call it a rider.  Sith struggles but loses and his personality is destroyed.  From this I infer that Cat Sith did not know he was infected

Aurora didn't know either. It has things in commen with mind magic. To be undetectable it must be subtle, in line with the existing personality. This means that it can not directly control actions. It can do so of course but then everything is less subtle and the meddling is more clear.

If the host becomes aware of it it can fight the infection and/or run for help. Unless you are crazy to begin with then you can ally with it.

[Mira]

I thought she was simply wearing it... and she was wearing it specifically when she showed up as "leah" for Harry I think? I think she wore it cause she had to with the equivalence factor of taking it/confining leah.

I always thought it was a statement of power on Mab's part, she over came Lea's challenge.  Lea wanted and accepted it because she thought it would help her defeat Mab for power..  I have always wondered if Lea wasn't infected before she accepted the knife...  It could be that we and Mab got it all wrong, Lea may have infected the knife and not the other way around.