Mab thought she was doing the right thing

[groinkick]

Jim said this about Mab with regards to bringing Leah to Arctis tor.  To me this implies it wasn't the best thing to do, she error'd.  There was the attack, could more damage have been done than originally shown?  Is that damage still relevant?  If she did error it means it will come back in future books.  How do you think it will come crashing down?

[Carl]

Depends what was meant. The thing is we don't really know exactly what happened at Arctis Tor before Harry and Co got there. That creates an issue, a big one. Because we don't actually know the attack got beaten off. maybe they got in and got what they wanted and got out. But if so what did they leave with, (or destroy). Without that info we really don't know enough.

In fact i'm inclined to say that since the Denarian involved got away clean it probably did succeed. Molly could tear a Denarian apart with the Lady's Mantle. What Mab could do if she put her mind to it probably isn't worth thinking about. And thats the problem. There's just no way any of the attackers would have survived if they'd been beaten off by Mab. And Mab was he only Winter survivor not imprisoned or late to the party like the fetches. That suggests to me they got what they where after. But what was it, we all assumed it was Lea they were after but it could well be that lea simply provided the pretext for the attack and was never the real objective, just an obvious excuse either for Mab's benefit or possibly for some of the help along for the ride.

Hell the entire point might have been to turn Mab and the Denarians against each other. I just finished re-reading small favour and the kind of things they could do with Ivy are all short term gains, mass fear and panic and confusion. That's more tessa's style, maybe nasciel suggested it to tessa and she talked Nic into it. Because let's be fair here, whatever the Denarians faults they don't want the outsiders to win, but pitting them against Mab removes any possibility of them helping in the future. Thats a big deal. Stripping Mab of a potential ally would be more than worth giving up Lea from the outsiders PoV.

Then again maybe it was somthing more physical. Maybe Mab has a weapon vault full of scary stuff and they wanted somthing from it. One of my personal theories is that the fae queens could also be the horsemen, (or rather horsewomen), of the apocalypse, presumably if so they have special swords for the occasion.

[forumghost]

Or maybe Mab has simple overestimated herself, or underestimated Nemesis, and Lea isn't as 'cured' as she seems, and Nemesis still has a sleeper agent just waiting for the right moment...

[Wizard Sibelis]

Is this in any context? Cause one thing we've already established is it likely got to Maeve through Lea, and I've always assumed because of how Nicodemus referred to that action, in Smf to mean it actively escaped into Maeve from Lea.

[Mira]

It was the only place where she could cure Lea.. It was the right thing to do.. As for Maeve, Mab blinded herself to what was going on with her, perhaps it was the humanity left in her, a mother's heart, it also made her vulnerable..

[groinkick]

Well wasn't Maeve already infected when Leah was at Arctis Tor?

Or maybe Mab has simple overestimated herself, or underestimated Nemesis, and Lea isn't as 'cured' as she seems, and Nemesis still has a sleeper agent just waiting for the right moment...

Didn't Leah tell Harry that it could still reach her so she had to fight it or words to that effect?

Is this in any context?

It's not a brand new quote.  He's said it a few times but I just thought about it and started the topic.  I think they were generic questions about what happened at Arctis Tor and Jim said that.  In each case he answered "Mab thought she was doing the right thing"...  To me the emphasis was on "thought".

It was the only place where she could cure Lea.. It was the right thing to do..

The right thing to do may have been to destroy Leah.....  There may not be an actual cure, only a way to slow it down, or stop it for a little while.

[morriswalters]

Jim said this about Mab with regards to bringing Leah to Arctis tor.  To me this implies it wasn't the best thing to do, she error'd.  There was the attack, could more damage have been done than originally shown?  Is that damage still relevant?  If she did error it means it will come back in future books.  How do you think it will come crashing down?

Arctis Tor is Mab's seat of power, it may be the only place where Lea could have been safely restrained.  The raid itself may have been an effort to free Lea.  Certainly Lea felt that Dresden could free her, once he got to where she was constrained, even though it seems she couldn't free herself. Maybe Mab didn't expect to be attacked at her seat of power. Since it pinned her at the borders of Winter.

Maybe one day JB will actually tell us. If he does will somebody hire an ectomancer to let me know, since I'm old and decrepit and am not counting on seeing the end game?

Well wasn't Maeve already infected when Leah was at Arctis Tor?

Didn't Leah tell Harry that it could still reach her so she had to fight it or words to that effect?

Mab speaks through Cat Sith in Small Favor because she is angry that the Winter Lady was infected.  As of Changes she uses Lea to speak, so she is still angry .  The Winter Lady may well have been infected at the time of Summer Knight, but certainly by Proven Guilty, I think I can cite that timeline if someone believes it wrong.

[forumghost]

I mean in SK Maeve kinda pulls Harry's butt out of the fire and allows him to foil Aurora, so presumably she wasn't taken then.

[Mira]

I mean in SK Maeve kinda pulls Harry's butt out of the fire and allows him to foil Aurora, so presumably she wasn't taken then.

True, or that was part of the plan all along. 

[forumghost]

True, or that was part of the plan all along. 

Nemesis: "mwahaha, excllent! Now the one person that can potentially prevent me from checkmating this game and conquering reality is free to do so! Good job my agents!"

Like, that only works if you assume either A) Nemesis is thicker then reinforced concrete or B) Actively trying to fail at it's job.

[Arjan]

Nemesis: "mwahaha, excllent! Now the one person that can potentially prevent me from checkmating this game and conquering reality is free to do so! Good job my agents!"

Like, that only works if you assume either A) Nemesis is thicker then reinforced concrete or B) Actively trying to fail at it's job.

Or Nemesis did not think Harry was a serious threat anyway.

[groinkick]

Nemesis: "mwahaha, excllent! Now the one person that can potentially prevent me from checkmating this game and conquering reality is free to do so! Good job my agents!"

Like, that only works if you assume either A) Nemesis is thicker then reinforced concrete or B) Actively trying to fail at it's job.

Or C. Nemesis needs a certain Starborn to be alive for future plans.

Dresden was pretty confident that He Who Walks Before could have killed him in the past but felt he was being tested in some way.  Cowl could have probably killed Harry but didn't.  The Fallen Coin wanted Dresden specifically for some reason, and not another wizard.  Mab see's him as an enemy, Titania is afraid of what he can do...  Dresden is important in some way and it's reasonable to assume that Nemesis see's him the same way.

[Fcrate]

Depends what was meant. The thing is we don't really know exactly what happened at Arctis Tor before Harry and Co got there. That creates an issue, a big one. Because we don't actually know the attack got beaten off. maybe they got in and got what they wanted and got out. But if so what did they leave with, (or destroy). Without that info we really don't know enough.

Didn't Harry and company find a winter army already in place when they launched their own attack? Maybe that's what beat them off.
Or maybe they wanted to free Lea before she was cured, and failed, because they needed Summer Fire, and they didn't have it handy.

[morriswalters]

Nemesis: "mwahaha, excllent! Now the one person that can potentially prevent me from checkmating this game and conquering reality is free to do so! Good job my agents!"

Like, that only works if you assume either A) Nemesis is thicker then reinforced concrete or B) Actively trying to fail at it's job.

Or the point was to remove Aurora and replace her with a less experienced Summer Lady.  The question is what was the goal?  To have a war between the Queens or to destroy the well? If Mab can plan for multiple paths to success, then one might assume that Nemesis could do so as well.  So a failure in one leads to the other.

And why does there need to be something taken from Winter in the attack at Arctis Tor?  If the ways could be made hazardous to the White Council, isn't that, in itself, sufficient reason?  The Reds would have then had the advantage of safe travel, while the White Council would not.

Or it could be some other way entirely and I have been drinking my own Kool Aid.  /shrug?

[raidem]

Well I think the problem might be that Mab placed a Nemesis infected agent within Winter's Wellspring.  It is true that it helped cure Lea but it may also be true that it left a taint that might end up coming back to bite her.

I think it is something that can work both ways though. If Nemesis could somehow taint and get an advantage via Wellspring, there may be a back door way back to it via the Wellspring too.