Author Topic: A Positive Death "Curse"  (Read 2246 times)

Offline Jack of Hearts

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A Positive Death "Curse"
« on: May 24, 2018, 01:27:06 AM »
My apologies if this has been discussed before but I was curious if it has been established that a death curse has to be cast on the person who is responsible for the wizards death? The reason I ask this is because if this isn't the case then could a wizard's death be used in positive way instead of cursing someone? By this I mean instead of harming the person who is killing you you instead use the power of your death to boost the power of another magic user. Or maybe something less permanent like using your death to power or boost the effect of a spell being performed by another. We have seen rituals being powered by human sacrifice which wouldn't be much different.

I think it would be cool to see an important magic user character know they are about to die and use their death to boost or give power to a spell or ritual that Harry attempting to perform. Or give Harry another boost in power when he needs it. I love me a good willingly heroic sacrifice in stories and if this is possible I think it would make a good way for certain characters to go out with a bang....

Offline peregrine

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2018, 01:43:34 AM »
Yes, you could use a Death Blessing.  When Harry thought he was about to die, I think in Dead Beat when Morgan was gonna execute him, he made plans to use it for something to help Morgan and Luccio stop the necromancers, rather than use it against Morgan.

The main thing is that when you're a wizard who is about to die, you're most likely going to be focused on revenge against the person who did it.  So that's the most common use.

Offline Fcrate

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2018, 02:00:12 AM »
Yes, you could use a Death Blessing.  When Harry thought he was about to die, I think in Dead Beat when Morgan was gonna execute him, he made plans to use it for something to help Morgan and Luccio stop the necromancers, rather than use it against Morgan.

The main thing is that when you're a wizard who is about to die, you're most likely going to be focused on revenge against the person who did it.  So that's the most common use.
He planned to use it to destroy or at least cripple the necromancers. Not boost the power of, say Carlos or to heal Luccio.
I think Jack of Hearts meant something along the lines of Traitor Son Cycles, where the Saint -I forgot her name, the b**ch- used her ascension/death to boost the magical reserves of her allies.
For DF however, I don't think that's likely; as a death curse is cast by a dying wizard, it would be primarily destructive. To perform magic you have to believe in it, and it's tough to believe in peace and love or anything constructive while your throat is being slit, or so I believe.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline Jack of Hearts

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2018, 02:15:20 AM »
Quote
I think Jack of Hearts meant something along the lines of Traitor Son Cycles, where the Saint -I forgot her name, the b**ch- used her ascension/death to boost the magical reserves of her allies.
For DF however, I don't think that's likely; as a death curse is cast by a dying wizard, it would be primarily destructive. To perform magic you have to believe in it, and it's tough to believe in peace and love or anything constructive while your throat is being slit, or so I believe.
Yes this is pretty much what I meant. I can understand why most death curses are used in destructive ways because of the natural human reaction to dying and wanting to lash out at the person or thing responsible for your death.

 Lets take it a step further. What if a magic user is dying of natural causes or old age? They would be more likely to know when its their time to go compared to a mortal. Could they pass down their power or a portion of their power to another? Perhaps this is how some wizards got to be so powerful? I know this a stretch but it got me thinking. It could even be a mantle of sorts if it was continuously passed down....

Offline Fcrate

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 03:07:55 AM »
Interesting thought, I'm not sure if it's possible, but if it happened like you think it would, we'd have "bloodlines" of wizards getting more powerful every generation.
هل أخذت الغاب مثلي منزلاً دون القصور
فتتبعت السواقي وتسلقت الصخور
هل تحممت بعطره وتنشفت بنور
وشربت الفجر خمراً من كؤوس من أثير

Offline khadgar4606

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2018, 09:40:11 AM »
okay  the funny point is how many outsider cults use blood magic to summon a outsider use the freaking dead curse as destructive final f you you guys think? nearly every sacrifice using blood magic willing sacrifice uses their dead curse to get the demon appear in material world instead of taking revenge on the guy who does the final act.

Offline raidem

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 02:29:42 PM »
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The main thing is that when you're a wizard who is about to die, you're most likely going to be focused on revenge against the person who did it.

That was basically what Jim said, so you got the jist of it.  But yes, you can. You just aren't going to typically have good intentions, feeling etc when you are dying so your death likely will result in a curse rather than a blessing.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 02:31:20 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Kindler

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 02:32:15 PM »
Harry does, at some point, question what happens when he lays down a death curse backed by Soulfire. He meant it reference to what happens to his soul if it's burned up in a death curse, but Soulfire is a creative force, not a destructive one. Maybe a Soulfire Death Curse could be used in a purely creative fashion, rather than a purely destructive one.

Offline Paviel

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 03:19:08 PM »
Didn't Jesus cast a "Death Blessing"?

Offline raidem

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 06:41:06 PM »
I wouldn't work too hard in trying to fit religious figures like Jesus into the Dresden Files.  I'd suggest treat it as an anomaly, then we aren't discussing too touchy subjects and trying to fit real world religious thought into fictitious magical theory.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 06:43:33 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline WereElephant

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 06:48:23 PM »
I wouldn't work too hard in trying to fit religious figures like Jesus into the Dresden Files.  I'd suggest treat it as an anomaly, then we aren't discussing too touchy subjects and trying to fit real world religious thought into fictitious magical theory.

Good notion. But for the sake of argument...

Didn't Jesus cast a "Death Blessing"?

...I would say that is more of a massive Dispel directed at a universe-wide curse.

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2018, 09:03:31 PM »
Could you prepare a specialise foci to channel and focus your death curse for a specific purpose? So that when you can cast the death curse at a time and place of their choosing
k moinuddin

Offline Jack of Hearts

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 01:02:14 AM »
Quote
Could you prepare a specialise foci to channel and focus your death curse for a specific purpose? So that when you can cast the death curse at a time and place of their choosing
Interesting. I didn't even consider that. It would go back to my thought of it being rare for your death to be planned which doesn't usually happen but if a wizard did die of old age and knew when it was going to happen. Why not capitalize on it and use it to do something good or powerful with the use of a ritual or foci?....
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 01:13:56 AM by Jack of Hearts »

Offline groinkick

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 04:26:00 AM »
Just my opinion but one needs to strongly believe in what they are doing to use magic.  A "death curse" may require that much more belief because of the sheer power being used.  So it may be difficult to do things other than pure revenge, OR using it to save or protect someone much like what Harry's mom did.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline peregrine

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Re: A Positive Death "Curse"
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 05:39:53 AM »
Just my opinion but one needs to strongly believe in what they are doing to use magic.  A "death curse" may require that much more belief because of the sheer power being used.  So it may be difficult to do things other than pure revenge, OR using it to save or protect someone much like what Harry's mom did.
Harry's Mom didn't do it to protect or save anyone though.  She did it to get back at Raith.