Author Topic: Dear Jim  (Read 7015 times)

Offline jonas

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2018, 12:08:06 AM »
Not for the sake of this fan.  I want him to keep writing books.  Two is too few for my liking.  If he had 10 more before the BAT I'd be fine with it.
If he writes them for the next twenty years and never completes them i'll still be happier than if he F@*)s it up by cutting it too short though. I've seen series ruined by trying to crunch a story into the allotted books and failing. *cough*inheritance cycle*cough*
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Offline WereElephant

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2018, 04:43:32 PM »
flying peach,

Here's my difficulty with your position "owed" implies a legal obligation.  I just don't see that.  We were given a book that is part of a series.  We paid for the book and read the book with full knowledge of the fact that is a part of a series.  There is no guarantee the series will ever be complete.  There is no obligation by the author to complete the series.  That might make the writer who chooses to hang up his pen and become a... blacksmith a bit of a jerk but there is nothing we can do about that other than kvetch that it was not fair that we didn't get the "whole story". 

My problem is that when people claim they are "owed" something by a writer they really don't know what they are talking about.  When you buy a book, you get the book that you bought, and nothing more.  There is no legally binding promise to finish the full story.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/owe

Owe can, but does not necessarily, mean a legal obligation, as per definition and examples from above link.

From the information we have available, no, we are not owed anything. Mr. Butcher has not entered into contract with us, his audience. As you say, we buy individual books and receive their contents. That is the extent of our legal expectations. Not knowing what kind of contract Mr. Butcher has with his publisher, he may or may not legally owe them multiple manuscripts for different novels, but either way, we are not party to that contract.

Offline Mira

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2018, 11:10:25 PM »
Quote
If he writes them for the next twenty years and never completes them i'll still be happier than if he F@*)s it up by cutting it too short though. I've seen series ruined by trying to crunch a story into the allotted books and failing. *cough*inheritance cycle*cough*

Or he could F@*) up just as badly by dragging it out just because he originally slated the series for X amount of books.  If he is bored with the series, wants to do other projects I say more power to him..  If he can say it better in two or three more books why should he do five? 

Offline Wolfeyes

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2018, 12:24:36 AM »
Or he could F@*) up just as badly by dragging it out just because he originally slated the series for X amount of books.  If he is bored with the series, wants to do other projects I say more power to him..  If he can say it better in two or three more books why should he do five? 

The key words there: If he can say it better in two or three more books.

We haven't had any indication he can wrap everything up in two or three more books+BAT. If anything, Jim's stated before he's had to add books to his original planned outline because the series has evolved and certain characters and plot threads required more care.

I'd rather the series maintain quality than feel a need to rush-rush-rush to make up for lost time.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2018, 03:57:27 AM »
Or he could F@*) up just as badly by dragging it out just because he originally slated the series for X amount of books.  If he is bored with the series, wants to do other projects I say more power to him..  If he can say it better in two or three more books why should he do five?

Because he has a plan, and has outlined the story for a certain number of books.  The number of books has increased in his outline, not decreased.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Mira

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2018, 08:18:53 PM »
Because he has a plan, and has outlined the story for a certain number of books.  The number of books has increased in his outline, not decreased.

  But perhaps he should consider decreasing them?

Offline Wolfeyes

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2018, 05:27:09 AM »
  But perhaps he should consider decreasing them?

Why? If it's the amount he feels he needs and he's still getting contracts for it, that's all there is.

Readers can decide for themselves if they want to stick it out.

Offline magnuskn

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2018, 09:36:48 AM »
Yeah, I see absolutely no reason why he should deviate from his original plan. It has been working out so far. Only because some fans become impatient is no reason to rush his story, thereby decreasing its quality.

Offline Mira

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2018, 11:15:05 AM »
Yeah, I see absolutely no reason why he should deviate from his original plan. It has been working out so far. Only because some fans become impatient is no reason to rush his story, thereby decreasing its quality.

Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was.... Also a lot can happen in twenty years

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2018, 12:30:14 PM »
Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was.... Also a lot can happen in twenty years

That is fair, though some would say that the quality has made a positive change, not a negative.

Offline jonas

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2018, 05:36:42 PM »
Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was...
And they'd be being too stubborn to be honest with even themselves if anyone actually thinks that...
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2018, 05:44:58 PM »
Some would argue that the quality isn't what it was.... Also a lot can happen in twenty years

The books have changed since Changes.  I don't know if quality is the word, but a style change.  Earlier books seemed more slow paced, figuring out a puzzle.  After Changes they seem more like an action movie.  I prefer the earlier books.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2018, 06:44:37 PM »
The books have changed since Changes.  I don't know if quality is the word, but a style change.  Earlier books seemed more slow paced, figuring out a puzzle.  After Changes they seem more like an action movie.  I prefer the earlier books.

I see why you would say that a style change has occurred, but I disagree. I think it's a scale change.

Up until Changes, we were dealing with Harry Dresden: the only professional wizard in the Chicago phone book. He solved cases, did jobs, made snarky comments, and caused a lot of property damage. Chase and action scenes were abundant, but on the scale you would expect from a mid-budget television show about an inner city superhero.

Post Changes, we have Harry Dresden: the reluctant Winter Knight. He solves unofficial cases, does jobs, makes snarky comments, and causes exponentially more property damage. The number of chase and action scenes is comparable, but each one has had its FX budget quintupled.

The only exception I can think of is Changes. That one feels like Dresden's version of the first Avengers movie.

What I suspect is happening that is causing some readers misgivings is that the scale change is removing the story from a relatable setting. We related to the PI and his clients more than the Winter Knight and his colleagues because they were more understandable. It's easy to imagine a guy down on his luck and living in a cheap apartment below Mrs. Spunklekrief, and very relatable. The same guy parkouring over crystallized monstrosities in an underground mega prison on an enchanted island is still a sympathetic character, but his circumstances distance him from us as an audience. Ditto situations, etc.

That being said, I like the in depth look we're finally getting at much of what was teased in the earlier books. The Fae were nebulous and above it all before. Now they're understandable characters. The Red Court war has run its course, and their absence isn't just another baddie put down. Their demise had world-changing consequences.

Matters of taste are not to be disputed. I, for one, am excited to see what comes next (no, not What Comes Next from Ghost Story. Hopefully I have many a year left...).

Offline groinkick

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2018, 06:58:18 PM »
Well I mean that in the earlier books Harry made gadgets to help him, and things like that.  He was more like Batman, while now he's more like Superman.  He really has become more of a Winter Knight than the wizard he once was.  He uses ice, and some soulfire.  Besides that he doesn't really do much other magic it doesn't seem like.

Earlier books he used things like:
Staff
Blasting rod
Kinetic rings
Shield bracelet
Belt Buckle
Magic Sword
Magic Duster
Potions
Bob
Gun
Various forms of magic

Newer books:
Winter Knight Mantle
Soulfire
Gun
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 07:02:25 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Dear Jim
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2018, 07:11:57 PM »
Well I mean that in the earlier books Harry made gadgets to help him, and things like that.  He was more like Batman, while now he's more like Superman.  He really has become more of a Winter Knight than the wizard he once was.  He uses ice, and some soulfire.  Besides that he doesn't really do much other magic it doesn't seem like.

Earlier books he used things like:
Staff
Blasting rod
Kinetic rings
Shield bracelet
Belt Buckle
Magic Sword
Magic Duster
Potions
Bob
Gun
Various forms of magic

Newer books:
Winter Knight Mantle
Soulfire
Gun

I think we'll see more of these come back. As of Skin Game, the staff is back, and the kinetic rings were combined into it. I thought the duster came back in Cold Days.

Since Chicken Pizza wiped out most of his material possessions, I imagine he just hasn't yet had the time to replenish. Ghost Story wouldn't have worked at all, and most of Cold Days was physical therapy. The interim between Cold Days and Skin Game helped, but the increasing headaches probably threw him off his game too.