Author Topic: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag  (Read 962 times)

Offline groinkick

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Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« on: April 09, 2018, 07:30:53 PM »
Just a thought but I'm wondering if Anduriel's end game plan is for Dresden to take up his Coin, and use their combined angelic, wizard, and starborn power to let in Outsiders, and control them to create a new universe where the Fallen are in charge.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline WereElephant

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 07:48:57 PM »
Seems kind of unlikely, given that Anduriel has been playing a really long game with Nicodemus. That being said, it would be interesting to see Nicodemus have to work for Anduriel's favor again after a failure.

I really don't see Dresden picking up another Coin ever, however. Apart from him being the only person ever known to have thrown off the sway of Lasciel, I suspect the WK Mantle might prevent him from becoming a host to a Fallen. Anduriel is no idiot. For him to suddenly change his desired host from Nicodemus, a cooperative vassal of 2 millennia, to an upstart wizard with an incredibly brief period of complete opposition to his goals, there would need to be incredibly good, rock solid reasons to believe Dresden would cooperate. Not saying those reasons don't exist, but I have no idea what they would be.

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 12:38:31 AM »
Personally, I think Anduriel has a very complex end game. But I do not believe he wants the Outsiders in. I think for certain he has convinced Nicodemus that he is saving the world, perhaps from Outsiders but also from Free Will. But I am not so sure that Nicodemus is aligned with Anduriel's end game. I believe he still is being manipulated. But judging from Nicodemus' action around finding out about the traitor denarians - I think he isn't part of the Circle. I think the Circle wish for unlimited power which they believe the return of the Outsiders and the Old Ones will bring. Which is probably wrong, as I think the Outsiders and Old Ones wish for Creation to return to the Nothing from which it was made. It is too loud and bright and noisy.

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 12:41:54 AM »
Which is probably wrong, as I think the Outsiders and Old Ones wish for Creation to return to the Nothing from which it was made. It is too loud and bright and noisy.

Relatable old guy Cthulhu just wants those annoying teenagers with their shitty music to get off his lawn.

Offline raidem

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 05:14:45 PM »
I think Nemesis would really want to infect Nicodemus.  Would Anduriel know if Nicodemus was infected by Nemesis?

It does seem like it is out of character for angels, even fallen angels per WOJ on Lucifer not being a threat to the Universe to plan with Outsiders.  So, it really does seem like Anduriel's reacton to finding out that Hellfire was used at Arctis Tor was an honest reaction.  It seems Angels AREN'T suppose to work in any way to risk Outsider win in the Universe.  An Angel, even Denarian, using Hellfire in their assault on Arctis Tor and subsequently Mab who protects Reality from Outsiders would qualify as something Angels just do not do.  Now, the twist though is that the Denarian may be able to get around the prohibition by free will vs fallen angel.  I'm sure the Angel wouldn't appreciate that though.  It likely is against it's will even.  It could be a case in which that Denarian is infected with Nemesis and that power is able to overcome Fallen Angels influence via Coin.

I'm wondering if Nic suspected some of the Denarians of this and therefore allowed circumstances to exist in which he would benefit from the Denarian getting axed.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 05:22:32 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline groinkick

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 06:02:15 PM »
I think Nemesis would really want to infect Nicodemus.  Would Anduriel know if Nicodemus was infected by Nemesis?
It does seem like it is out of character for angels, even fallen angels per WOJ on Lucifer not being a threat to the Universe to plan with Outsiders.  So, it really does seem like Anduriel's reacton to finding out that Hellfire was used at Arctis Tor was an honest reaction.  It seems Angels AREN'T suppose to work in any way to risk Outsider win in the Universe.  An Angel, even Denarian, using Hellfire in their assault on Arctis Tor and subsequently Mab who protects Reality from Outsiders would qualify as something Angels just do not do.  Now, the twist though is that the Denarian may be able to get around the prohibition by free will vs fallen angel.  I'm sure the Angel wouldn't appreciate that though.  It likely is against it's will even.  It could be a case in which that Denarian is infected with Nemesis and that power is able to overcome Fallen Angels influence via Coin.

I'm wondering if Nic suspected some of the Denarians of this and therefore allowed circumstances to exist in which he would benefit from the Denarian getting axed.

Nicodemus believes some of the Fallen are working against him.  Some could have chosen sides with the Old Ones.  Lucy put them in the Coin's because he thought they were the most likely to betray him.  Betray to who?  God?  Unlikely. So who does that leave?  I think that Andruiel has Nicodemus so fooled.  Nicodemus think's he's in charge.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 06:03:52 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline raidem

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 07:20:42 PM »
Well I do think Anduriel compromised Nicodemus free will in Skin Game when Michael almost convinced Nic to surrender the coin by appealing to his fatherhood and what the Fallen had him do with his daughter.  I think Anduriel started breaking the rules (cheating) and Uriel may get to balance that later.  I guess that leads to the question can a Fallen once tied to a human via the coin have open season on violating the free will of the human without it being balanced by Heaven.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 10:44:58 PM »
Harry has soul fire, that is akin to angelic power. So he could be involved in a Denarian ritual when they power a ritual using hellfire. They would provide the raw power for the ritual, while Harry provides control and direction for the magics.
k moinuddin

Offline groinkick

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 04:17:05 AM »
Well I do think Anduriel compromised Nicodemus free will in Skin Game when Michael almost convinced Nic to surrender the coin by appealing to his fatherhood and what the Fallen had him do with his daughter.  I think Anduriel started breaking the rules (cheating) and Uriel may get to balance that later.  I guess that leads to the question can a Fallen once tied to a human via the coin have open season on violating the free will of the human without it being balanced by Heaven.

Possible, but I think it was a way to take away any sympathy from Nicodemus.  He's not being manipulated into holding a Coin, he's doing so because he wants it, he wants to do what the Fallen wants to do. 
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline raidem

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 02:50:32 PM »
I disagree. I think absurdly started pushing buttons though I do agree that nic wants to do what anduriel plans.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Yuillegan

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Re: Anduriel's plan for Dresden wag
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2018, 06:28:53 AM »
Relatable old guy Cthulhu just wants those annoying teenagers with their shitty music to get off his lawn.

Pretty reasonable, he didn't vote for the lights being turned on.

That extra-vert artist neighbor had to build his monstrosity that is not in keeping with the village's rural aesthetic. -> See Hot Fuzz