Swords and Ancestry

[WereElephant]

As of Skin Game, we know that Butters has accepted wielding Fidelacchius full-time. Murphy has picked it up off and on in the past, with varying results. Based on previous theory, to bear the sword on a regular basis, there is a requirement to have royal ancestry.

Did the books say from which royal Butters is descended? I can't remember. If not, what are the popular theories? He's Jewish, so it could go back to the kings of Israel and Judah, possibly even David.

What about Murphy? She never became a full Knight of the Cross, but she wielded it several times, and at one point, the sword was described as giving her a "job offer". Any theories on from whom she might be descended? Did they say in the books?

Other possible candidates for holding swords (based solely on lineage, not on temperament or character):

Thomas Raith. Descended from Lord Raith, ruler of the White Court for centuries. Royalty of a sort. Also, him taking up the Sword of Love would be interesting.

Marcone. His lineage remains completely unknown, but his position as an underworld lord and freeholding lord might count, making him the first of his line.

Daniel Carpenter. Same lineage as his father, duh. Seems a little on the nose, and I would rather see a sword go elsewhere, but it's a possibility.

Thoughts?

[Maz]

By the nature of genealogy, everyone on the planet, if you go back far enough, is descended from royalty.  Its just a product of the limited population of the planet and  the number of ancestors you have had

[Kindler]

Daniel Carpenter. Same lineage as his father, duh. Seems a little on the nose, and I would rather see a sword go elsewhere, but it's a possibility.

*cough* AmandaCarpenter *coughcough*.

Daniel, in my opinion, has disqualified himself from being a wielder. He completely lacks the one quality we've seen from Shiro, Sanya, and Michael (and Butters, for that matter): being slow to anger. Daniel's got the fury part, but he's missing the "righteous" side.

Murphy's Irish. Only Irish dynasty I know anything about is the last one, the Ua Briain dynasty, which was overthrown around 1120 AD by (you guessed it) the Anglo (at this point)-Normans. Not sure if her ancestry includes England or not, but that would open up an awful lot of possibilities.

I'm assuming that Butters is ethnically Jewish (as in a lineage traceable to Israel, circa 1100 BC) and not Ashkenazi or a converted family line. Could be from the Davidic line, which hung around for about a thousand years, with a lot of offshoots.

By the way, I also assume the Lord Raith is descended from one of the Etruscan Kings of Rome (before they became a republic and annexed most of the other city-states in what they called Etruria). It'd certainly make sense if they're speaking flippin' Etruscan in their meetings.

I agree; Marcone is the Nobleman of Chicago.

For the rest... we simply don't know enough about their lineage. I do know that the House of Borden (Billy) was created as a Greater Barony by William the Conqueror for services rendered (there's that pesky Norman again). With the ties to Hastings, and also being half of the only two genuinely stable couples in the books, that might make him a viable candidate.

[Rasins]

There were a LOT of Kings in Ireland, and elsewhere, so It's entirely possible that Murphy is descended from one or many of them.

[Quantus]

There were a LOT of Kings in Ireland, and elsewhere, so It's entirely possible that Murphy is descended from one or many of them.

Agreed.  And the further you go back the smaller a group had to be to call their leader a King (or equivalent). A Chieftain would have the same sort of Responsibility for his People.   

[Kindler]

Hey, Sigrun is a daughter of the King of the Geats, apparently. Though it's been debated a lot in recent years, my old professor was adamant in declaring Beowulf the first Christian epic (the debate centers on whether it's specifically Christian or just pagan with messianic qualities); a daughter of Beowulf with freakin' Excalibur? I'd pay to see it. Well, I'll pay to read it, anyway.

[Quantus]

Hey, Sigrun is a daughter of the King of the Geats, apparently. Though it's been debated a lot in recent years, my old professor was adamant in declaring Beowulf the first Christian epic (the debate centers on whether it's specifically Christian or just pagan with messianic qualities); a daughter of Beowulf with freakin' Excalibur? I'd pay to see it. Well, I'll pay to read it, anyway.

I doubt she'd qualify for the Sword given her pre-existing affiliations with a god and an afterlife and all that. I Could be wrong, she might still be Mortal enough.

[Graves]

she's not mortal, she's over 1,000 years old. As has been said ireland had many kings. it was why they tended to get conquored by the english-they were busy fighting among themselves to fend off a more organiazed outsider, but that's still a lot. butters the logical line would be David BUT depending on how you read the bible they all go back to Abraham. If that isn't enough he might be a levite (variation on levine) which is a line to Moses, the law giver. there are the pre Davidic kins like Saul. and joshua (a king in action if not name.)

You really don't know. a friend of my mother's is big into this and traced may maternal line. We thought it was kind of funny. Everyone wants to go back to a king or a significant slave (Cleopatra's house maid) but we always said you end up on a turnip farm in Norfolk. well no. he hit a noble line and those church records existed so you can run with it. He didn't know the history but I could fill in the blanks-a lesser son of the Duke of Brittany who settled in England during the civil war between Matilda and Stephen (the time of the Cadfael books) by where a supported of Matilda who's son was Henry II. You think the family line is ho-hum but then 42 generations back your ancestor is the uncrowned king of France and known as the Hammer of Tours.  Well that puts a lot of 'royal' blood in the general population

[YoungestGruff]

*cough* AmandaCarpenter *coughcough*.

Second.

[jonas]

Second.

Somehow I wonder more about little Harry... if not for a sword for the unique trait of being literally named after Harry Dresden. In a world were naming is of extreme import to name someone for someone seems to have dire consequences... least when that someone is fricken Harry Dresden. 

[Quantus]

Somehow I wonder more about little Harry... if not for a sword for the unique trait of being literally named after Harry Dresden. In a world were naming is of extreme import to name someone for someone seems to have dire consequences... least when that someone is fricken Harry Dresden. 

I always tended to think that little harry wouldnt get much (and they apparently call him 'Hank' within the household), but trying to use "Bill" on Harry might actually carry a great deal of weight, given how much weight Harry gives Family. 

[Rasins]

I always tended to think that little harry wouldnt get much (and they apparently call him 'Hank' within the household), but trying to use "Bill" on Harry might actually carry a great deal of weight, given how much weight Harry gives Family.

I'm waiting for them to call him Bill, and Wild Bill, the warden from Tx shows up.

[WereElephant]

Second.

Third. I like it.

[Rasins]

*cough* AmandaCarpenter *coughcough*.

Second.

Third. I like it.

I could totally live with this.

Back to Daniel, I don't think he's disqualified himself. I think he's young and just needs some seasoning.

[Kindler]

I could totally live with this.

Back to Daniel, I don't think he's disqualified himself. I think he's young and just needs some seasoning.

He's a good man, and he's willing to fight, but for me, the benchmark of a Knight is what we've seen from Shiro and Michael. Daniel lacks... serenity? I suppose that's the word. Shiro, Michael, and to an extent, Sanya, have all shown an aversion to fighting. It's not their first solution. Daniel seems like he would be reaching for his Sword at every opportunity. I just don't think he has it in him to be a good Knight.