Author Topic: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?  (Read 17621 times)

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« on: February 08, 2018, 06:54:37 AM »
Hi gang it has been too long! I must admit that I mostly come here for news of the latest book but I do enjoy the WAGs!

For those who may have watched Netflix's latest blockbuster binge-fest, Altered Carbon you might have noticed some similarities. A big, angry brooding hero that everybody knows and somewhat fears, who is constantly fighting for his life against something bigger and more mysterious than himself with sexy naked people throwing themselves at him - ring any bells? There is even a feisty cop (who is very attractive) and an excellent fighter who is a love interest, and hates him and keeps thinking he is one of the bad guys. She is a great Murphy/Susan combination. The lead (while a lot less quippy and admittedly nerdy) is still a big, brooding thinking who is also great at taking on the world (with a massive oversized pistol), he is very insouciant to people he dislikes (especially if they are powerful) and he has a dark past. He even has a mouthy (horny?) assistant in his AI hotel Po (quite like Bob, he is very powerful but beholden to his master and cannot leave a certain area - not only that he is extremely knowledgeable).

The sci-fi setting is just as crazy and wild as the dresdenverse, the villains as devilish and the violence as incredible and visceral. And there is lots of sex and nudity (IT REALLY DOES SELL!) For great examples look at Westworld, Sense8, GoT

My point is - I think if Altered Carbon could be pitched, sold and made as successful as it is fast becoming then I believe the Dresden Files would be just as good, if not better.

It would require a really excellent team to execute it well, with good timing so it did not compete with any other big action fest. I also think the format would have to become a bit more cliffhanger-like for people to get really hooked. I doubt a book a season would actually work, so probably a few books per season might have to happen. My personal peeve is when people create monsters and characters for no good reason, when perfectly good examples already existed in the fiction. It can't become a monster of the week or buddy cop (like Lucifer) - it needs to remain a mystery-noir action fest - rather like Altered Carbon.  I also think the monologue/soliloquies would be a great staple too. 

All in all, what would you all like to see - and how could we make this happen? Genuine thoughts here guys - look at what vocal fanbases have achieved in the past.

Any other examples of what shows could be used as a great basis for DF? Anything I have left out?

Cheers

Offline khadgar4606

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2018, 01:13:33 PM »
they can make a Dresden series but i dont think they realy make a Dresden series. lot of Netflix series immediately start psychology and angst as main topics with not enough action to show depth of main character as the bad ass hero. and dresden files needs its constant action and witty banter to keep plot going as lot of times its like 24 series where harry is against the clock to beat the bad guys. so we dont have time to delve harry's 13 year old trauma for half a season before ending simple day worth of action.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 05:37:26 PM »
I'd love Netflix to pick it up.  I'd rather HBO.  They seem to do bigger budgets, but either would do.

And I agree about the casting/parts.  I saw a LOT of parallels.

I think we've discussed on the boards a good way to break down the series into seasons.  Something like The first two books into one season.  Then the third as it's own, then it gets messy.  LOL
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline raidem

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5634
  • Duck's Apprentice
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 06:38:46 PM »
Thanks for this mention.  I just started watching the series.  Two episodes down.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline WereElephant

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 158
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 07:07:23 PM »
I'd love Netflix to pick it up.  I'd rather HBO.  They seem to do bigger budgets, but either would do.

And I agree about the casting/parts.  I saw a LOT of parallels.

I think we've discussed on the boards a good way to break down the series into seasons.  Something like The first two books into one season.  Then the third as it's own, then it gets messy.  LOL

Bigger budgets would be better. I'd still be happy with either. However, there are definitely some hurdles to getting it right.

Chronologically, it makes the most sense to do one season per book, since most of the books are a year-ish apart from one another. The problem with that is that it stretches some of the books out longer than would be viable for a series. Can you imagine Storm Front dissected into twelfths? A lot of stuff would need to be added for padding.

The alternative would be to condense multiple books into each season. The problem there is the giant gap between the events of each book mentioned previously.

A possible solution for the seasons that would otherwise be light on content would be to throw in the stuff from the Short Stories and Graphic Novels. For instance, make Storm Front into a season, but throw in things like flashbacks to a Restoration of Faith and Welcome to the Jungle.

The biggest transition from pages to screen would be the narration. You would to translate the vast amounts of non-event, non-interaction, non-dialogue content to the viewer. In the books, so much information is directly narrated to the reader about how spells work, the nature of the supernatural players, relationships of previously met characters, etc. How do you convey all that without just making info dumps on the viewer and throwing flashbacks at them willy nilly? Or do you convey it? Maybe it's better to leave more of it unsaid.

Much as I'd love to see the Dresden Files, a Netflix Original Series, or similar, I'm skeptical of them taking the time to do it right.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2018, 07:09:25 PM »
The major problem with CGI is organics.  Spaceships, buildings, cars, armor suits, weapons and full-time bodied costumes are great.  But anything requiring organic material, be it skin, faces, animals, or plants, and it looks fake.

AC and other sci-fi shows can get away with no organic CGI, but I don't know that Dresden could.  Especially on a limited budget.  There's so much in Dresden that would require quality CGI or quality costuming with CGI features that it might be cost-prohibitive.

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 01:19:06 AM »
I would be ecstatic if Netflix picked it up. Two things: stay with source material as much as possible and don't add or alter characters to fit some demographic.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2018, 01:50:36 AM »
I would be ecstatic if Netflix picked it up. Two things: stay with source material as much as possible and don't add or alter characters to fit some demographic.
I honestly don't know the original material of any of their properties well enough to know if they stuck to it or not. 

What about that urban fantasy movie they just did.  Did anyone watch it?  Was the CGI/makeup good enough for what we'd want for Dresden?

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2018, 07:22:09 AM »
lot of Netflix series immediately start psychology and angst as main topics with not enough action to show depth of main character as the bad ass hero. and dresden files needs its constant action and witty banter to keep plot going as lot of times its like 24 series where harry is against the clock to beat the bad guys. so we dont have time to delve harry's 13 year old trauma for half a season before ending simple day worth of action.

I understand your concern...however Dresden Files actually does have a lot of psychology, and does spend a fair amount of time on his childhood past. I agree that they would have to be careful; rarely does the pacing and lines in books translate well into screen and stage. That is why so many changes happen to the source material and yet I think the best remakes tend to not stray far - but when they do they make appropriate and clever choices about what works and what does not. I think it would be worth having Jim as a consultant, maybe even a writer time to time (like George RR Martin).

Bigger budgets would be better. I'd still be happy with either. However, there are definitely some hurdles to getting it right.

Chronologically, it makes the most sense to do one season per book, since most of the books are a year-ish apart from one another. The problem with that is that it stretches some of the books out longer than would be viable for a series. Can you imagine Storm Front dissected into twelfths? A lot of stuff would need to be added for padding.

The alternative would be to condense multiple books into each season. The problem there is the giant gap between the events of each book mentioned previously.

A possible solution for the seasons that would otherwise be light on content would be to throw in the stuff from the Short Stories and Graphic Novels. For instance, make Storm Front into a season, but throw in things like flashbacks to a Restoration of Faith and Welcome to the Jungle.

The biggest transition from pages to screen would be the narration. You would to translate the vast amounts of non-event, non-interaction, non-dialogue content to the viewer. In the books, so much information is directly narrated to the reader about how spells work, the nature of the supernatural players, relationships of previously met characters, etc. How do you convey all that without just making info dumps on the viewer and throwing flashbacks at them willy nilly? Or do you convey it? Maybe it's better to leave more of it unsaid.

Much as I'd love to see the Dresden Files, a Netflix Original Series, or similar, I'm skeptical of them taking the time to do it right.

I think unfortunately due to the sheer amount of content and the way episodes work these days some people and events would have to be amalgamated. I hope not too much, but it would take someone much more experienced and clever to figure that out. I think 2 books a season is fine... but most shows barely have 3 seasons before people start losing interest (and risk losing budgets) I think you would have to trim the fat and end up almost with 3 a season (works out to about 6-7 seasons and a movie trilogy for the BAT?) Even GoT is only in up to it's 8th and final season - and while it has grown its budget it admittedly isn't the groundbreaking show it started out as.

The info dumps would be tricky - but some shows handle that better than others. I am skeptical too but I have hope that it could really work.

The major problem with CGI is organics.  Spaceships, buildings, cars, armor suits, weapons and full-time bodied costumes are great.  But anything requiring organic material, be it skin, faces, animals, or plants, and it looks fake.

AC and other sci-fi shows can get away with no organic CGI, but I don't know that Dresden could.  Especially on a limited budget.  There's so much in Dresden that would require quality CGI or quality costuming with CGI features that it might be cost-prohibitive.
I absolutely agree. It never ages well either - more prosthetics, less CGI is always better (just ask George Lucas!). Perhaps an interaction with WETA would be required.

The hardest thing of all, as was found in the original attempt, is actually the magic. Harry cuts loose all the time, but even in Star Wars, Harry Potter and the LOTR etc they even have limits on how often they throw magic around. Probably a clever workaround would be more physical fights, and maybe some Heroes-esque CGI. I am not the biggest fan of that, but they did manage to show a lot of powers each episode.

What Urban Fantasy movie?

Also I think DF ticks enough demographics, I think they would be fine.

I really do think however we as fans need to become more vocal - it won't happen without a push, and it certainly won't get the budget it needs without a big vocal message. Realistically, GoT was quite niche but amongst fanbases they were quite large. And we are not. So we really would have to make a lot of noise.

Offline Griffyn612

  • The Merlin
  • Seriously?
  • *******
  • Posts: 11725
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2018, 05:14:01 PM »
What Urban Fantasy movie?
Netflix did a uf movie in the last month or two called Bright starring Will Smith.  Critics hated it, but the public seemed to like it.  I haven't had time to watch it yet.

Offline Rasins

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 12188
  • Aid the younger and weaker.
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 05:19:11 PM »
I don't know if Bright is based on a book, but the movie didn't do too bad with the CGI and effects.  And there were some subtle ones that if you weren't looking for them, you'd miss them.  Like the Dragon and the Centaurs.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2018, 12:09:08 AM »
I thought Bright was a good buddy cops movie with a UF twist. Effects were decent enough.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline thevickers

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2018, 10:27:59 PM »
most shows barely have 3 seasons before people start losing interest (and risk losing budgets)

I agree to a point. But I differ on some things. Mainly the budget part. I have pitched a UF series to Netflix and Amazon about 2 years ago. Went as far as the presentation package, but it didn't/hasn't panned out.
But Netflix was my first choice because of budget and audience collection.
I read and then was told that once Netflix commits to an original series, they really commit.
Networks have to pay for their content with commercials, so then those sponsors have a say in what gets aired.
Netflix is all in house. They pay for their own stuff. There are a few FX houses and movie making resources that get contracted out, but Netflix foots 100% of the bill.
I LOVE THAT! They aren't beholden to any firm or brand. I was told (also you can tell) that some of their series took seasons before they found their audience, before any real interest or attention was given.
Netflix has ALL the money they saved during their DVD days, and then streaming, before they broke into making their own content.
If they chose DF as a series, they could make 2-3 or even 4 seasons and wait patiently on the viewers to come to them.
On the other hand Fox cancelled Firefly in a half a season, and Drive in 2 episodes.
DF home should be Netflix hands down.
Everything happens the way it is supposed to, and could not happen any other way.

Offline raidem

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5634
  • Duck's Apprentice
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2018, 11:31:35 PM »
I finished altered carbon, which show does a decent parallel to dresden files and or has time travel.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1371
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Altered Carbon - Could Netflix do Dresden?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2018, 12:57:43 AM »
Netflix did a uf movie in the last month or two called Bright starring Will Smith.  Critics hated it, but the public seemed to like it.  I haven't had time to watch it yet.

Yeah it wasn't I suppose good cinema, but it was fun and they landed the cgi and fantasy/modern mash up. Biggest issue I think was the heavy-handed allegories and messages, and some of the pacing. Will Smith also just annoys me in general these days, but that's on me.

I was told (also you can tell) that some of their series took seasons before they found their audience, before any real interest or attention was given.
Netflix has ALL the money they saved during their DVD days, and then streaming, before they broke into making their own content.
If they chose DF as a series, they could make 2-3 or even 4 seasons and wait patiently on the viewers to come to them.
On the other hand Fox cancelled Firefly in a half a season, and Drive in 2 episodes.
DF home should be Netflix hands down.

But an example of them cancelling a popular high-budget sci-fi/mystery show was Sense8. Hard to know what the viewer numbers were like (as Netflix guards them strongly) but based on the size of the fanbase - it came down to the fact they wanted more money to dish around (unless you believe the conspiracy theories around Netflix's new corporate direction is to be more family friendly - I point to Altered Carbon to dispute that claim). Don't get me wrong, few other networks could do DF right - maybe Amazon or Starz, at a pinch HBO - but I think I would rather them streamline it a little while maintaining the core of the DF rather than losing the series half-way.

I finished altered carbon, which show does a decent parallel to dresden files and or has time travel.

Indeed, but they did close off the ending a bit abruptly (new lead actor, bold but dangerous) and the main murder mystery tends to get in the way of all the other interesting mysteries - I really didn't care much about who or why Laurens Bancroft was killed in the end, I mostly was more interested in the Envoys, AI and dark stuff in the background. And the vague alien references.