Chronicles of Amber

[groinkick]

Dude, tagged that one a long time ago. He's also associated to Nyarlahotep which ties into some other DF stuff. Randall Flagg also is the Man in the Black in Stephen King's Gunslinger/Dark Tower series.
Likes I said... your not quite getting to the source material yet.

lol what?  Yeah I posted about it a long time ago.  He's been in like 9 Stephen King novels.

What are you talking about me not getting the source material yet?

[jonas]

lol what?  Yeah I posted about it a long time ago.  He's been in like 9 Stephen King novels.

What are you talking about me not getting the source material yet?

Was talking about that to Rai earlier. Here, it's technically Lovecraft and his interdimensional metaphysics. Narylahotep has a form as a very tall joyous man... that's the Gatekeeper lol... which Naryla is the soul of the outer gods. So GK and what he actually does.... well, just think about that one lol.
*which ones besides the dark tower?

[raidem]

This comment is more of a repeat of the other thread.  Before I go more on with this section, I strongly suggest just visiting this link.  Read what I've posted below and see if you can extrapolate my brief snippets in the linked thread to your own conclusion without having me spell it out via context.  It might save me some time to devote on applications rather than observations.

I moved this over from another thread...

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The first thing that jumps out to me is the parallel with the series opener with the beginning of Cold Days.  The hero, Corwin, finds himself in a amnesiac state in which he has to recover along with his injuries.  Corwin has better regenerative abilities than Harry with respect to his wounds.  I also noted that Corwin had been in a Psych ward which is similar to a WOJL that Jim plans a book or plot with Harry in an insane asylum without magic.

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Evelyn Flamel vs. Evelyn Derek.  Corwin gets a business card associated with his alleged 'sister' who is paying the hospital bill for his stay.  The business card stood out to me and particularly when it was associated with Evelyn as I believed it to be an Evelyn that Harry met in Turn Coat. The lawyer that had hired the Private investigator to keep tabs on Harry.  Now Evelyn Flamel (Amber) is Corwin's sister but that is beside the point as far as the business card goes.  It was a coincident but I think Jim, since he is familiar with Amber series, had this business card-Evelyn connection going on when he went with it.

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We see a motif whereby certain brothers/sisters of Corwin have dogs that protect them.  I pointed out on one occasion in which a dog goes in circles before lying down.

With amnesia Corwin has a familiarity with people, places, situations that is coming back to him.  Later though, it still seems he has a degree of this that borders more on cognition of multiversal events rather than just simply amnesia.  This has a parallel with Harry's precognition familiarity with places, etc.

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Julian, Corwin's brother, leads a 'wild hunt with horn' event chasing Corwin.  It is somewhat similar to DF wild hunt except that the Amber one is a generic hunting event.

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The large part of the series is traveling through the shadows.  These shadows stretch between Amber and Chaos like an electric field around a dipole.  This relates to DF traveling through the NeverNever.  Time distortions occur during travel through shadows in similar ways in which it can occur with it in the NN.

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Again, children of Amber have a great ability to regenerate similar in ways to the ability of DF wizards.

[raidem]

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,50777.0.html
First, you can review tidbits I jotted down while reading that stood out to me as I listened to the Chronicles of Amber.
Next, I will attempt to apply what I've observed in teh Amber series, books 1-5, to the Dresden Files.  This is a work in progress.  It will be in discrete snippets at first.  I'll be filling it in as time goes on.  I like to use this as my word processor. 

Start of Dresden Files cosmology
     Begins with Corwin creating a new Pattern at the End of "The Courts of Chaos" Book 5. In doing so, with a pre-existing Pattern that he didn't know for sure that existed, Corwin created a 'twinned universe' that spawns the Dresdenverse.  Corwin planted his staff, a branch of the tree Ygg next to site where he subsequently walked The Pattern.  The planted staff likely grows into Yggdrasil. After he completed the Pattern, he notices the tree and glade growing very fast around this Pattern. This makes either Corwin, or his son Merlin, very close to being Odin or his ancestor.  (Note: Corwin's Merlin doesn't mean our Merlin is the same.  It's just the name.)  I should note that "Hugi" is a bird of chaos/absolute chaos that meets up with and follows Corwin in book 5.
   With this as the beginning of the cosmology of the Dresdenverse, then it should be noted of the things that Corwin thought of when he created the "Pattern."  Things that stood out to me was Earth, chestnut trees, and Avalon.  I've speculated before that 'our Earth' and 'Demonreach' is a umbilical cord near where the multiverse was created.  Now we have a precedent of what it means to be a 'umbilical cord.'  It is a site whereby one can feasibly reach "The Pattern."  It is also very close to "The Court of Chaos."  In the Corwin multiverse, "The Court of Chaos" isn't Outsiders.  Actually, Corwin, his father, grandfather, Corwin's son, his brother, sisters all have Chaos blood in their veins.  They just have via Corwin's father, Oberon, on down have "unicorn" blood in their veins.  (It was Dworkin's fault. He was their grandfather of chaos who mixed with the unicorn in some way.)

NEXT
Corwin's blood up to 3 generations hence can endanger "The Pattern."
Wizards who can independently travel the NeverNever have Corwin blood in their veins.
The OuterGates, Black Road is there because "The Pattern" has been defiled.
The Pattern needs to be 'repaired.'  Or, it needs to be destroyed, then remade.
(Destroy, Remade isn't an option that Oberon nor Corwin want, but that Dworkin prefers as he simply wants the torment to end as he is in some respects the Pattern as he created it. And he suffers--is mad--while it is defiled. It is said repair is more difficult than destroy/remake, which  effectively destroy the entire multiverse.  However, remake wouldn't be guaranteed as Chaos wouldn't simply wait while the Pattern is recreated.)
(Either Harry/Odin will probably do it. Or more likely, either Odin/Mac will stop Harry or Odin and sacrifice himself in doing it (repairing vs destroying/remaking) and Harry will make a new Pattern not knowing if Odin succeeded or not.) If Harry makes a new Pattern with Odin/Mac succeeding, a twinned multiverse is created by Harry.  A cataclysmic wave will hit in Odin's success, all must seek "Court of Chaos" for safety until it passes unless they have a 'jewel of judgement' to break the storm.

NEXT
Mac is Corwin. Odin is Corwin's son. Mac is some 'grandcestor' of Harry.
This means Mac originally walked/created a new Pattern creating a twinned 'multiverse.'  He is in a sense GOD.  Mac, however, would be a creature of 'unicorn-order' and 'chaos'.  And, he would be distinct from the multiverse he created but related to it.  So, TWG is an independent entity aside from Mac. 
Malcolm Dresden may be descended from Mac/Odin/Corwin. Or, Maggie Sr. was.
Even though there are a continuum of infinite worlds with mortal choice creating them.  There are worlds 'closer' to the Primal Pattern than others.  Those parallel worlds up to one shadow away from the Primal Pattern have a 'stronger' say in the multiverse than the others. This also extends to people derived from them.  So a Harry from a proximate Primal Pattern world, or rather one shadow away as no one really lives in the abstract Primal Pattern has a stronger say in the multiverse.  Harry's 'starborn' nature could be signified by his proximity to this primary pattern, however it would need to be based on a bloodline as well.  His mother was a very talented traveler.  It may be that she needed to find a 'Corwin' or 'Oberon descendant' and she only had a certain amount of time to do it.

OOH.  Maeve was wanting to collect Harry's blood in Cold Day's to use against "The Pattern" near Demonreach.
I'm thinking that a Primal Pattern that "Corwin/Odin" created lies 'near' Demonreach. Wherever this Primal Pattern lies it is linked to being proximate to Yggdrasil. This Primal Pattern also lies very near the Court of Chaos.  This Primal Pattern could have already been defiled by someone, which is why the "black road...OuterGate" exists. And the bad guys want to defile it more.  Since the defilement occurs by spilling blood 3 generations removed from Corwin onto the Pattern, then the bad guys needs one of them.  It may make sense why so many people are aiming for Harry's blood, bloodline.  His 'starborn' nature is tapping into Corwin's bloodline.  This is placing more emphasis on who exactly makes up Harry's parentage and their bloodline.  We have a sense of Harry's maternal bloodline but we know nothing about Harry's paternal one.

[raidem]

The black corruption from using black magic corresponds to corruption on The Pattern.  This means that wizards are part of "The Pattern" and to use their power in forbidden ways corrupts themselves thereby corrupting "the Pattern."  The BlackStaff eats this corruption which limits the harm done to the user and subsequently "The Pattern." 

If there is a connection between the corruption caused by black magic and the corruption on "The Pattern" then this suggests that wizards or those that practice magic are descended from whomever walked "The Pattern" that created the multiverse or at least opened the way to it.

Hah, if Harry ever has to walk a Pattern, I'm gonna bet he is going to use some crazy folk lore in doing so. In my maddened days, I referred to my IN/OUT theory and even went so far as talking about the Hokey Pokey.  So, the Hokey Pokey is now back.  Harry will walk the "Hokey Pokey" (one part of the Pattern) in creating/repairing the Pattern of the multiverse.  Harry also uses part of the "Pattern" or 'new pattern' in defeating/confusing HWWB when he was 16.  And, Lea observed it.     LTW dance was tapping into part of "The Pattern" when he was fighting the SkinWalker.

[raidem]

Check out this link.  It has a compilation of tvtropes as applied to Amber.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/TheChroniclesOfAmber

[raidem]

We Create Our Own Shadows

One of the main points in Amber, and in the Dresdenverse is that mortal thought/belief create these parallel worlds.  Well, Jim is the prime originator of the Dresden Files. Roger Zelazny is the prime orginator of the Amber series.  Now to take it up one step, we discussing the Dresden Files postulating our theories arguing about them, etc are creating our own worlds within the Dresdenverse.

Mine would be a "Raidemverse" within the Dresdenverse that I believe lies within the Amberverse.  It is a property of Amberites that we can reach the shadows, cause them to be via our imagination and the property of walking in the shadows.

So, like I said. Jim is the person who has "Walked the Pattern of the Dresdenverse."  I, a Amberite or mortal whose thoughts create parallel worlds, have created a subset within the Dresdenverse whereby my theories prove true.  Other people on the forum have theories that in their subset are also true.  That doesn't mean they correspond to the "truth" in Jim's Primal Dresdenverse.  Our multiverses are but 'shadows' of the one true "Primal Pattern" as written by Jim.

I ask now.  What does your personal "multiverse" look like?  What quirks, imaginings, preferences, accuracies, misunderstanding, have imprinted upon these 'shadows.'  By virtue of us imagining our worlds, our multiverses, innacurate as they may be within the Dresdenverse, Jim can reach into these worlds and have Harry walk into our quirks, imaginings, preferences, accuracies, misunderstandings, etc.

Jim has mentioned he loves reading Fan Crack theories.  I think he is doing just like what I'm suggesting. He is roaming these shadows, peaking in to see our worlds, our shadows that we have created of his Primal Pattern.

[raidem]

Thinking about Demonreach, I could imagine Harry finds himself as an inmate in Demonreach.  He talks with his prior self, and tells him to piss off. And of course, our Harry wants to piss on him as a joke

The prisoner Harry at some point needs to exchange positions with our Harry, with our Harry going along the course of events that Prisoner Harry went through.

This would add another goal in Cold Days. To either jail brake a not ready PrisonerHarry, or kill the PrisonerHarry with the banefire.

[raidem]

We have known for some time that if someone has your 'true name' they essentially have you.  And to give them your true name, you need to speak it.

After reading the Amber series and encountering the character Victor Melman, I began wondering about both Victor Sells and the mailman (Victor Melman) we see in Storm Front.  I wondered if the mailman, having thought of Peabody, had Harry sign his name for the letter/package.  Does this signing of one's name give some part, approximation of the 'true name'.  After this, I then thought of those wizards that Peabody had compromised within the White Council.  We know part of the compromise was the blue ink.  I wonder though if there was another vector for compromise in having your name, placed by you, on print being given to another.  As an example, say a wizard is mute.  This person has a true name.  How would they give their 'true name' out?   Anyways, what do you guys think?

By the way, if this Victor mailman vs Victor Melman parallel holds between Amber and DF, it would mean Harry is 'Merlin' or at least his shadow.  Nor, have we seen the last of Victor Sells.  Victor Melman attempts to sacrifice Merlin atop an altar crying out for his Master.

[groinkick]

We have known for some time that if someone has your 'true name' they essentially have you.  And to give them your true name, you need to speak it.

After reading the Amber series and encountering the character Victor Melman, I began wondering about both Victor Sells and the mailman (Victor Melman) we see in Storm Front.  I wondered if the mailman, having thought of Peabody, had Harry sign his name for the letter/package.  Does this signing of one's name give some part, approximation of the 'true name'.  After this, I then thought of those wizards that Peabody had compromised within the White Council.  We know part of the compromise was the blue ink.  I wonder though if there was another vector for compromise in having your name, placed by you, on print being given to another.  As an example, say a wizard is mute.  This person has a true name.  How would they give their 'true name' out?   Anyways, what do you guys think?

By the way, if this Victor mailman vs Victor Melman parallel holds between Amber and DF, it would mean Harry is 'Merlin' or at least his shadow.  Nor, have we seen the last of Victor Sells.  Victor Melman attempts to sacrifice Merlin atop an altar crying out for his Master.

I have theorized the mailman was more than just a mailman but at this far I don't think that's the case.  I'd love for little things all the way from the first book to matter in later books but I don't know.  I'd believe there are parallels between Amber, and Dresden Files but I don't think it would play out so closely.

[raidem]

Harry did notice that the mailman had just changed at the beginning of Storm Front.  So, it could be that one or the other of the 'mailman's' were the bad guy.  And, someone had to do in the other.  I don't think Harry ever mentions getting a new one.

So, it could be that the 'mailman' was somewhat of a protector of Harry. Preventing those who would try to get to Harry via ink, or handwritten signatures.

I'm now thinking of the Larry Fowler lawsuit.  Will Harry have to take the stand or something, or need to say his Full Name in court.  Just because some got his name in Cold Days, doesn't mean there won't be others that try to make that same attempt.

[groinkick]

Harry did notice that the mailman had just changed at the beginning of Storm Front.  So, it could be that one or the other of the 'mailman's' were the bad guy.  And, someone had to do in the other.  I don't think Harry ever mentions getting a new one.

So, it could be that the 'mailman' was somewhat of a protector of Harry. Preventing those who would try to get to Harry via ink, or handwritten signatures.

I'm now thinking of the Larry Fowler lawsuit.  Will Harry have to take the stand or something, or need to say his Full Name in court.  Just because some got his name in Cold Days, doesn't mean there won't be others that try to make that same attempt.

"Please state your full name for the court"

:Every supernatural being out there:

[Quantus]

"Please state your full name for the court"

:Every supernatural being out there:

We never have been able to settle the question of whether a person can intentionally mispronounce their own Name to avoid that sort of issue.  I lean toward the idea that you can, based on the fact that you can apparently get a true Name correct accidentally (as Morgan very nearly did back in I want to say SF)

[DroppaMaPantz]

Lots of good stuff in this thread. Just wanted to say thanks for making it and all the work you put in.

[raidem]

Thanks. And your welcome.

I seem to have missed jotting down notes for the last two books.  I hope I have them somewhere.