Poll

Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?

Mab
1 (1.1%)
Nicodemus
18 (20%)
Ariana
2 (2.2%)
Red King
6 (6.7%)
Lord Raith
2 (2.2%)
Lara Raith
1 (1.1%)
Cowl
1 (1.1%)
Corpsetaker
2 (2.2%)
Maeve
1 (1.1%)
Mavra
5 (5.6%)
Bianca
0 (0%)
Polonius
1 (1.1%)
Peabody
4 (4.4%)
Marcone
0 (0%)
Kemmler
16 (17.8%)
Shagnasty
25 (27.8%)
Evil Bob
5 (5.6%)
Dracul
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?  (Read 39947 times)

Offline Ananda

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2017, 12:42:27 PM »
If you go for something like good has only meaning because god is almighty you will run into problems.
Aha, I thought your god talk was strange but just an example. The whole talk, I was wondering why you have this fiction as the centre of the argument, but didn't realise you only used this context. :D Yes, using a construction like a 'god' as the basis of an argument is a fundamental failure of logic.

Good and evil are man-made constructs; but, they are necessary constructs. Giving objects and ideas meaning gives life meaning. Our experiences, those events that happen to us or that we cause to happen, define who we are as a person. We categorize  these experience as a part of understanding. If one interaction feels positive and/or gives pleasure to our selves and others; it is labeled right and good. If another interaction feels negative and/or gives pain to ourselves and others; it is labeled wrong or evil. Very few experiences are entirely one side or the other and very experiences are not linked to other experiences; so, our categorizing of experiences is constantly in flux and continously developing.
Yes, all living things need to interpret stimuli in order to fulfill biological imperative of survival, eating, reproducing. We also have the ability to try to step outside our own experience as an imaginary exercise and see that these things are not universal True, but just our experience filtered through our biology and our socialisation and so not take them too seriously.

One really interesting thing with general AI coming soon™ is that we will be able to view how a non-biological intelligence views existence. They very well may lack our foundations of a bias toward eating, reproducing and not dying. They certainly won't be subject to chemical reactions in biological matter. They (I keep saying they, but it might be a singular mind, too) may be completely alien to us and so fundamentally shift our way of thinking about ourselves. It may be like an alien ship landing in our front yard. Too bad I will only see the beginnings of it given I'm closing in on 50.

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2017, 06:58:45 PM »
Peabody lied and betrayed the people he worked for and who trusted him.  To me that is the greatest evil.

You mean, he totally violated their trust that he would behave sensibly in accordance with their best interests, like Harry starting the war at the end of GP ?
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Offline forumghost

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2017, 07:59:29 PM »
Harry never violated the Council's trust. That would imply he had it in the first place.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2017, 10:56:31 PM »
Yeah, ever since Harry's first trial, the WC has expected Harry to be a problem.
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Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #79 on: December 08, 2017, 03:57:24 AM »
Harry never violated the Council's trust. That would imply he had it in the first place.

I took them lifting the Doom as indicating that he had obtained some degree of trust, at least to the extent that he counted as an official representative.

I do wonder whether the war would have started had Harry been lured into it before the Doom was lifted, or if the Council would have got away with saying "nope, he's not really one of us" the way they tried to in SK.
Mildly OCD. Please do not troll.

"What do you mean, Lawful Silly isn't a valid alignment?"

kittensgame, Sandcastle Builder, Homestuck, Welcome to Night Vale, Civ III, lots of print genre SF, and old-school SATT gaming if I had the time.  Also Pandemic Legacy is the best game ever.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #80 on: December 08, 2017, 08:12:18 AM »
They would have a stronger case if he was still under the Doom. As Molly's sponsor; I would say he is still under it. Even though Molly is now less than human.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #81 on: December 08, 2017, 02:10:00 PM »
They would have a stronger case if he was still under the Doom. As Molly's sponsor; I would say he is still under it. Even though Molly is now less than human.
According to the council Molly is not human anymore so she can break any law she wants and the council won't even care.
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #82 on: December 08, 2017, 06:12:23 PM »
You mean, he totally violated their trust that he would behave sensibly in accordance with their best interests, like Harry starting the war at the end of GP ?

Since we don't know Peabody's motivations, we really can't answer that.  But looking in from the outside it would appear as though it was a violation of their trust on a LONG term basis.

Harry was trying to save a life.  The Red court didn't HAVE to go to war over it.  They could just as easily have given Susan to Harry, totally expecting her to turn eventually.  Harry didn't break the Council's trust.  He was actually fulfilling one of it's tenants, and protecting humanity.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #83 on: December 08, 2017, 11:32:15 PM »
The WC is less concerned about saving humanity as they are about power management of its members. And Accords-related activities are very letter of the law and no intent.
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Offline forumghost

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #84 on: December 08, 2017, 11:46:19 PM »
The WC is less concerned about saving humanity as they are about power management of its members. And Accords-related activities are very letter of the law and no intent.

Yeah, that's kinda what happens when you let the fricking faeries write the goddamn rulebook.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #85 on: December 08, 2017, 11:46:30 PM »
I took them lifting the Doom as indicating that he had obtained some degree of trust, at least to the extent that he counted as an official representative.

I do wonder whether the war would have started had Harry been lured into it before the Doom was lifted, or if the Council would have got away with saying "nope, he's not really one of us" the way they tried to in SK.

Two ways to look at this.

#1.  The Red Court had been gearing for war for a very long time, it is implied they wanted it to happen.
#2.  If they were honest about not going to war if Harry was handed over, just how important is Harry in the grand scheme of things?  Apparently very important.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline jonas

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2017, 11:48:00 PM »
Two ways to look at this.

#1.  The Red Court had been gearing for war for a very long time, it is implied they wanted it to happen.
#2.  If they were honest about not going to war if Harry was handed over, just how important is Harry in the grand scheme of things?  Apparently very important.
#2 oh yes, nobody wants to kill Harry so far(well, none of the top people) they just want to possess him like a big ole' weapon. Which Mab has successfully done i'd add.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2017, 11:51:50 PM »
#2 oh yes, nobody wants to kill Harry so far(well, none of the top people) they just want to possess him like a big ole' weapon. Which Mab has successfully done i'd add.

I think there are those who do want him dead.  The problem for them is because there are so many big players working behind the scenes that to kill him they must do so in an indirect way, and it's proving difficult.  I wouldn't be surprised at all if Harry's butt has been saved a lot from those behind the scenes.  For example little Chicago not blowing his head off.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2017, 01:02:59 AM »
This reminds me of the thread about why the WC fears Harry. By their perspective, Harry is one of the baddest MFers walking.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2017, 03:28:16 AM »
Two ways to look at this.

#1.  The Red Court had been gearing for war for a very long time, it is implied they wanted it to happen.
#2.  If they were honest about not going to war if Harry was handed over, just how important is Harry in the grand scheme of things?  Apparently very important.
They were not honest but they were playng power games. If you can make them forget Archangel and hand over one of your own for vampirization you basically own them. After that you just keep demanding things until the white council either breaks and start a war in a weaker position or becomes your property.
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