The mysteries of Maggie, Sr.

[wardenferry419]

    Harry's mother is a very interesting character for me. I think that alot of Harry's problems are tied to her actions. She was anti-authority and anti-establishment figure that catalyzed many plot ponts that are coming to fruition during Harry's life. Hence, the apology during the magically-altered soulgaze between Harry and Thomas. I would like to list some points and mysteries that surround her.
1. For someone who was closing in on 200 years of age; she maintained a less than middle-age look and was able to bear children well past her age. This has been explained as extended time spent in Never-Never. Rashid remarked her as a fellow traveler of the Ways. She spent enough time to discover and anticipate the movements of the Ways. But, is there more to her youthful appearance?
2. She is well-known among many of the nastier supernatural elements. Nico spoke of her with familiarity. She had frequent and extended associations with various vampire courts. Maggie dealt with Lea and made her Harry's godmother. But, something occurred that troubled Maggie to such a degree that she fled Lord Raitth's control. What was it?
3. Creating a star-born seems to be not an easy task. It reguires a lot of unique conditions and unknown preparations to be met. Yet, Maggie achieved these necessary measures in order for Harry to be born with its potential. Why did she do this and how?
4. How powerful was Maggie? We know that her father, Eb, is on the top tier in his magic use. Her son, Harry, is well ahead of his age for ability to channel large amounts of magic even if he lacks fine control. She crafted elaborate and delicate spells. Was she closer to Molly with the sensitivity or closer to Harry with raw power? Could she have made Senior Council with her range and ability?
Are there any great mysteries of Maggie Sr. that others have pondered?

[Arjan]

What we know about wizard aging is based only upon a few samples so there could be some variety maybe Margaret just stopped aging at the normal rate somewhat earlier. It seems that frequent use of magic, which is linked to life and emotions, slows aging so maybe extensive traveling in the nevernever and frequent contact with the fae does so as well.

Or maybe a Margaret was on her way to become something else, most of the Sidhe started as human after all and she was called Margaret la fae for a reason.

She got older and so wiser? Maybe discovering what the white court really was did the trick. She was there for years and the white king must have thought her under his control so she must have observed a lot.

The starborn thing is something she must have discovered when working with the nasty ones or it was part of her deal with Lea. Nut the motive is not that difficult, a lot of parents want power for their children or want them to succeed in whatever they failed. She must have loved her magic so more of it for her child was desirable.

Margaret was probably as powerful as Harry or Ebenezar at their respective ages but she was more experienced and better taught.

[Mira]

   I thought it was established that she was between 135 and 150 when she died..  For a wizard that would be like a human in her early thirties...

I don't know that she was excessively powerful in of itself, but she made trouble for herself and the Council because she colored outside of the lines.  When they jumped her for it it escalated from there as she upped her rebellion against the system and yeah, she did commit real crimes... As Chauncy said, they were getting ready to welcome her, but she met Malcolm and turned her life around.

[Kindler]

1. I'm not sure about the aging. I don't think there are many wizards who spent extensive enough time in the Nevernever to lose enough time to artificially extend their life too much. Rashid is one of them. Maggie may be another. I think it would be noted by many when wizards powerful enough to hang around the Nevernever with impunity (it's a very dangerous place, remember) go missing for years. They did notice when Maggie disappeared; Luccio remarks on it. So I don't think it was Nevernever time shenanigans.

As for fertility at an advanced age... even if it was a problem, which I'm iffy on, a whole, whole lot of ancient magic rituals were focused on fertility (and crop yields, because famine was a problem). I'm reasonably certain that there is at least one that works. So, in short: magic.

2. I think she bailed when she realized that Lord Raith was hanging with Outsiders. She somehow uncovered that his antimagic field was sponsored by one (or, you know, a bunch), realized what it meant, and fled. My question is simply: why on earth did she leave Thomas? She could've kept him from becoming a vampire, after what we learned in Blood Rites about their first time—if she had taken him with her.

3. I don't know how she made a starborn. If fertility was an issue, it might've been part of things, actually. But I do think that she recognized the Outsider threat, and decided to do something about it.

4. I think Maggie could've been Senior Council once she was senior enough. I'm reasonably certain that'd be a safe bet.

[Arjan]

I do not think Margaret could have saved Thomas from vampirism, the only cure we know is unpredictable an impossible to plan.

[Kindler]

I do not think Margaret could have saved Thomas from vampirism, the only cure we know is unpredictable an impossible to plan.

They weren't told they were vampires. If they know about what their first time will do to them, they can make the choice, or at least prepare themselves for it.

Seriously, if you were told when you were ten that your first time would either turn you into a monster or you'd remain a normal person depending upon your depth of feeling, wouldn't you make an effort to work out when the best time was? Wouldn't you be extra cautious?

[Arjan]

They weren't told they were vampires. If they know about what their first time will do to them, they can make the choice, or at least prepare themselves for it.

Seriously, if you were told when you were ten that your first time would either turn you into a monster or you'd remain a normal person depending upon your depth of feeling, wouldn't you make an effort to work out when the best time was? Wouldn't you be extra cautious?

A thirteen year old boy? Full with hormones and the egoism of puberty? First try telling him about homework and the importance of a good education. Or anything that involves responsibility and planning for more than three hours.

And remember how obnoxious Ebenezar and all his descendants are, it is probably worse.

[Kindler]

A thirteen year old boy? Full with hormones and the egoism of puberty? First try telling him about homework and the importance of a good education. Or anything that involves responsibility and planning for more than three hours.

And remember how obnoxious Ebenezar and all his descendants are, it is probably worse.

You do realize that A) I was a thirteen-year old boy, and B) magic changes things, right? If my mother chucked a fireball, looked at me, and said "Magic is real, you aren't fully human, and there's some stuff we need to go over to make sure you don't become a monster," you're damn right I would've listened.

This isn't a talk about the birds and the bees, or the importance of saying no to drugs. This is a talk about a single event that will absolutely change who he is as a person.

Aside from which, we have confirmation that it's possible: Thomas's sister, at the end of Blood Rites.

Margaret robbed Thomas of that chance by leaving him with Raith.

[Arjan]

You do realize that A) I was a thirteen-year old boy, and B) magic changes things, right? If my mother chucked a fireball, looked at me, and said "Magic is real, you aren't fully human, and there's some stuff we need to go over to make sure you don't become a monster," you're damn right I would've listened.

Magic changes things in more than one way. The demon is already there and wants to express itself. That is far more difficult than a drug never used.

This isn't a talk about the birds and the bees, or the importance of saying no to drugs. This is a talk about a single event that will absolutely change who he is as a person.

Aside from which, we have confirmation that it's possible: Thomas's sister, at the end of Blood Rites.

Real love two sided is not something you can plan for your children as a parent. As a cure it is totally unpredictable and you can not count on it especially for a young child.

Margaret robbed Thomas of that chance by leaving him with Raith.

Margaret had to run away and she could not take her baby shark with her.

[Kindler]

I'm not saying that you can account for true love. I'm saying that Thomas could have been properly prepared. He did not have that chance; he was ignorant of his true nature until it happened.

I'm also not saying that his demon wouldn't have disagreed. But Thomas managed to beat his demon for years with nothing but his own willpower, after it had fully grown.

It doesn't matter that true love is rare, or that his demon would've tried to override his instincts, or that kids have hormones and don't want to listen to mom and dad. Him having sex outside a loving relationship has a one-hundred percent chance of turning him into a vampire for life. There was a chance it could've been prevented, and that's a chance that's worth taking, isn't it? I'm not accusing Margaret of not vaccinating her son, I'm accusing her of not telling him that diseases were a thing and leaving him at a leper colony. Maybe there's a good reason for that, and that's what I'm wondering.

As for the last bit, my questions is why she couldn't take him. She was, evidently, able to leave him a pentacle (which I suppose Raith never noticed, or I suspect he would've taken it). Was it an action-movie escape sequence, where she was fleeing into the Nevernever from armed vampires, or was it planned in advance, which might have been adjusted to take Thomas with her? Was she unwilling to take a kid on the run? Or was there another reason?

My point is that the kid was five. You try tearing me away from my kids, and I'll leave you a puddle of unrecognizable fleshsludge on the ground. I can't believe that Margaret didn't have similar instincts.

[Arjan]

She probably had but she also had knowledge about vampires.

[Mira]

I do not think Margaret could have saved Thomas from vampirism, the only cure we know is unpredictable an impossible to plan.

I don't think she could have either, that may have been one of the reasons she left him behind when she left Lord Raith.  For starters she may have felt that given his slim chance to beat the Hunger he was better off being raised with those who understand it far better than she ever could.  Secondly she may have felt if she had taken Thomas with her she'd had no chance with Malcolm..  Lastly but not least, Thomas might be her secret weapon for ultimate revenge against Lord Raith.  It may not be just because he was male that Lord Raith has tried to kill him all these years.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

2. She is well-known among many of the nastier supernatural elements. Nico spoke of her with familiarity. She had frequent and extended associations with various vampire courts. Maggie dealt with Lea and made her Harry's godmother. But, something occurred that troubled Maggie to such a degree that she fled Lord Raitth's control. What was it?
3. Creating a star-born seems to be not an easy task. It reguires a lot of unique conditions and unknown preparations to be met. Yet, Maggie achieved these necessary measures in order for Harry to be born with its potential. Why did she do this and how?

I think question 3 could go a long way to answer question 2.

Maggie dying as Harry was born, quite likely of a curse that had a Walker involved in it like the one the witches were using in BR would certainly be part of a unique and powerful set of circumstances that directly connected Outsiders to Harry's birth.  That it could be an ingredient in making a starborn seems plausible to me.  And that Maggie actually broke free of Lord Raith would mean she'd have to be enthralled by him in the first place, which seems a fairly pointless thing for him to do given that it would blunt her ability to do magic; her death being a willing sacrifice to give the world a starborn because she has some information about the scale of the Outsider threat (since she knew Lea well, or possibly via Cowl being part of her set of dubious comrades back in the span where she was shading from frustrated reformer within the White Council to willing to break the Laws, as Eb reports in BR) works for me.

[wardenferry419]

I hate to speak ill of the dead; but, what if Maggie needed Thomas to be a vampire as part of long-term plans? I would not be surprised if the pentagram left for him wasn't invested with a little magical mother's love in order to assist him in resisting the influence of his vampire nature.
I believe that question 2 and question 3 are linked.

[wardenferry419]

Are there any elements of Maggie or actions around her that others have questioned?