Has Eb already chosen his successor? If he has, who?

[Griffyn612]

Time travel.  No evidence at all that this creates a taint.   Although to be fair, the question has not been specifically addressed.     

And I would argue the calling an outsider "per se" is not black magic either, although dealing with outsiders is intensely dangerous and likely to lead to corruption through that interaction.  But if you just called one up and kept it in the circle for an hour without interacting with it -  and then sent it back -- it is hard to argue that this is black magic or particularly corrupting.  It is CERTAINLY against the laws of magic.   




Of course, if you want to get really philosophical, then all uses of magic influence the caster in some way.  If those influences are in the not nice direction, you can call that influence (accurately) a taint.  Using anger to fuel your magic taints the caster.  I suspect using love to fuel your magic also has an impact on the caster.   Using magic to harm someone probably causes a taint, although much less of one than killing with magic.   

Black magic is a general term for really bad magic that is both very negative in an of itself and has a very strong propensity to strongly taint the caster.   But it is certainly possible for a wizard to do a lot of magic that is "legal", but whose cumulative effective over decades is corrupting.  Harry himself mentioned that his use of fear/anger/rage in battle has probably altered his magical nature over the years. 


....and to give the other side example I forgot in my prior post.   Drawing power from a very dark ley line can certainly badly taint a caster in the same was as dark magic, but that action is not prohibited by the laws of magic.  It is still stupid, just not against the laws of magic.

But still, no proof one way or the other that any of the dark magics forbidden by the laws don't corrupt.  On the other hand, we have numerous cases of people telling us that dark magic corrupts, and the laws are against the darkest of magics.

[Griffyn612]

But on the surface, just going in without permission is a breaking of the law.

I'd argue that "invade" and "trespass" are two different things.  Invading a mind, as the law mentions, would seem to imply a certain level of aggressive activity.  Molly's actions in TC are more in line with trespassing; she entered without permission, but didn't do anything to the"victim". 

Just entering the mind doesn't have a corruption, or their newly established practices would be corrupting them.  So there would seem to be a difference. 

[Rasins]

I'm actually agreeing with you. 

I'm of the opinion that not all applications of breaking the laws lead to being tainted.

[Griffyn612]

I'm actually agreeing with you. 

I'm of the opinion that not all applications of breaking the laws lead to being tainted.

No, we're disagreeing.  I'm saying that what Molly did wasn't a law violation.  Harry said it was, but I think it could have been defended pretty easily if she were anyone other than her, and her master were anyone other than Harry.

I'm saying that law violations corrupt, which is why there are laws against them.  I don't think they were crafted just because they weren't palatable to conservative wizards; I think there's a genuine reason those 7 were crafted into Law.

Time travel included.  The mindset of someone willing to change the past, regardless of the consequences to reality, is just as corrupted as someone that would mess with someone's head.

[Rasins]

No, we're disagreeing.  I'm saying that what Molly did wasn't a law violation.  Harry said it was, but I think it could have been defended pretty easily if she were anyone other than her, and her master were anyone other than Harry.

I'm saying that law violations corrupt, which is why there are laws against them.  I don't think they were crafted just because they weren't palatable to conservative wizards; I think there's a genuine reason those 7 were crafted into Law.

Time travel included.  The mindset of someone willing to change the past, regardless of the consequences to reality, is just as corrupted as someone that would mess with someone's head.

Ah, Okay ...

What you are saying is that she didn't break the Spirit of the law.

[Kindler]

Time travel included.  The mindset of someone willing to change the past, regardless of the consequences to reality, is just as corrupted as someone that would mess with someone's head.

Not to mention the addictive nature of black magic (as explained by Harry); someone goes back to yesterday to move their car to avoid a parking ticket, and when there aren't any consequences, they go back a week earlier to fix something else, a bit bigger, and so on, until they decide that yeah, they should totally kill Hitler, and reality is unmade as a result.

Pretty sure Merlin would have had to do some kind of time travel when he made Demonreach, even if it was something weird like stepping outside of time to observe it from the outside.That might have made Harry's assumption that he was a jerk more accurate than he realized.

[groinkick]

I'd argue that "invade" and "trespass" are two different things.  Invading a mind, as the law mentions, would seem to imply a certain level of aggressive activity.  Molly's actions in TC are more in line with trespassing; she entered without permission, but didn't do anything to the"victim". 

Just entering the mind doesn't have a corruption, or their newly established practices would be corrupting them.  So there would seem to be a difference.

Believe you are right.  Technically didn't the Merlin enter people's minds to direct orders when Peabody was trying to escape?

[raidem]

I think the laws are meant to restrain wizards mainly per reason black council is rebelling. They have also served additional purpose to prevent corruption.  I'm not sure which is most important in why they were made: restraint or corruption.

There is a WOJ that THE MERLIN wouldn't approve of the how the White Council has dealt with the Laws, at least in some ways. 

[groinkick]

I think the laws are meant to restrain wizards mainly per reason black council is rebelling. They have also served additional purpose to prevent corruption.  I'm not sure which is most important in why they were made: restraint or corruption.

There is a WOJ that THE MERLIN wouldn't approve of the how the White Council has dealt with the Laws, at least in some ways.

I believe he compared it to real life government that has good intentions but basically goes too far.  Compared it to someone building an extended roof on a barn so a horse can be out of the rain and the government orders you to rip it down because you didn't get permission to do it.

I'd guess that the original Merlin would do more to help people who have screwed up, rather than chop their heads off.  Unlike Mab or Langtry who believes that laws are absolute , I think the Merlin may have seen the laws as a guide line to make the world better, not to kill every offender.

[dspringer1]

We are back to one of the classic points of disagreement on the forum.   Are the Laws of Magic something that both defines and designed primarily to block black magic, or are the Laws Of Magic primarily designed to constrain wizards from engaging in dangerous activities/dominating humanity which can include black magic. 

The only definitive statement in the text was the merlin or luccio (not sure which) stating that the laws of magic are intended to constrain wizards and protect regular humans from wizards.   And it is absolutely clear that at least some uses of magic the laws prohibit are clearly very black magic.  So there is enough evidence that can be brought to bear to keep both sides confident in the opinion.   

I am personally of the opinion that the laws of magic are about more than black magic, but restricting black magic is certainly a very good way to constrain wizards and protect regular humans from wizards.   But I am just one footsoldier in the vast armies that have lined up on both sides of this debate

[Griffyn612]

There is a WOJ that THE MERLIN wouldn't approve of the how the White Council has dealt with the Laws, at least in some ways.

I think the perfect example is Lea.  She became infected.  She was compromised.  But Mab took the time to heal her, even though there will always be a chance she could relapse.

In the same scenario, the Council would have killed her.

I think that's the difference between what Merlin would do, and what has become policy for his organization.  I think he would prefer saving people.

[kazimmoinuddin]

The staff apparently feeds on the taint of black magic, I wonder if it could feed on sources of black magic like necromancy or outsiders. So the black staff could have at least partial immunity from the effects of nemesis.

[Phariah]

I like this question from the OP. I can see it as going a couple ways. one of course is harry as he becomes like a balance for magic as a Starborn meant to hold back the Outsiders. he will need to be vicious, using black magic so this helps him. (imho I say Harry comes up w/ a way to fight the taint on his own , not needing the Staff. but, I think Harry's Winter link might be a deciding factor possibly.) the other would be either Ramirez or Chandler. Harry will need allies strong enough to fight by his side. giving either would be of a major help. especially since losing the Staff would most likely mean Eb's death imho. don't like LTW would be a good choice. he has major issues and wouldn't fit him imho. although giving it to the Gatekeeper would be sweet. turbo charging a top ally would rock.

[kazimmoinuddin]

Say nemesis needs black magic for some reason, so it potentially becomes vulnerable to that same energy. The whole you can't protect yourself from your own energy thing. Harry using the Blackstaff could turn the power against the bad guys.

[Phariah]

Say nemesis needs black magic for some reason, so it potentially becomes vulnerable to that same energy. The whole you can't protect yourself from your own energy thing. Harry using the Blackstaff could turn the power against the bad guys.

^ yup.
this is why I hope he gets some type of epiphany that helps him leave mab and give him some type of resistance to the taint. doing so gives the opportunity to boost and ally, by giving them the Staff. Harry will need support imho.