Author Topic: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)  (Read 71589 times)

Offline magnuskn

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Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« on: August 08, 2017, 10:48:18 PM »
So, two years ago Jim hinted on Twitter that he was writing Murphy's funeral.

It could have been a joke, but if Murphy really dies in Peace Talk, I would postulate that the most likely reason is to raise her as a Valkyrie. It seems to soon to end her and Harry's fledgling relationship, but, IMO, there are just too many things which would fall into place to not make this at least a very likely proposition:

- It solves the aging issue for her relationship with Harry
- It gives her a new purpose in life, after losing her old one, when she left Chicago police
- There has been foreshadowing for it, her training with the Einherjar and getting close with Odin's organization
- It is a source of future conflict, when her working for Odin comes into conflict with something Harry is doing

Maybe this is a bit too obvious, though. A lot of people thought that Karrin would be the next wielder for one of the swords and Jim trolled us in that regard. What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 10:50:45 PM by magnuskn »

Offline raidem

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2017, 12:34:46 AM »
I'm for anything that buttresses her being fashioned into a vessel for a larger mantle, something like Mab's.  Her being associated with kringle I'm sure would support that path.
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Offline Con

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2017, 02:18:44 AM »
Personally I think it's just a flashback to Murphy's dad's funeral. Simplest and plausible explanation.

I'd love Murphy to become a Valkyrie though

Offline Smaug with OCD

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2017, 02:49:22 AM »
I'm conflicted...

On one hand, the stories are journeying too far into the deep end of magical society for a simple mortal to hold their own. We can argue about Valmont's "It's how smart you are" remark all we want. But... well, there's a certain point where a mortal needs to resort to remote controlled weaponry, or heavy vehicles instead of a few guns and gadgets. And, while it would be fun to see Harry ride into battle alongside a tank... the stories are in the middle of Chicago, a major city. That would get people into big trouble. Too, Murph now has her knee problem, which would hinder her as a field operative unless she took the Kincaid approach and started using sniper rifles or something.

Making her a Valkyrie would side-step this issue.

However, since the beginning of the series, Murphy has been the mortal of the group. She's fulfilled the same roll that Xander did for the Buffy crew. Had Butters remained a normal guy, and not become a Knight, I would have been fully behind this change. As things are, there aren't really any people in Harry's core group that remain "human" in that sense. Michael can't take the field anymore with his injuries(having a Grace does not qualify him for "pure mortal" status). Marconi isn't part of the core crew, though he is a major character. SI has drifted into the background now that Dresden is dealing with bigger problems than they can handle. We haven't seen Tilly enough for him to have joined the Dresden Bat Family.

And, while it isn't entirely necessary for there to be a mortal on the team, there has been a big fuss throughout the series about how controversial they are to the supernatural, and removing one from the team would... It would create a separation that doesn't sit well with me emotionally. Something along the lines of "we big strong supernaturals have to protect the little humans," which has been zigzagged around throughout the entire series.

There is already a Valkyrie in the cast that can be called upon if the story needs one. If we were to get another, I feel like Guard becomes - in some ways - redundant.

I'm not really sure what else to add...
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Offline magnuskn

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2017, 02:58:40 AM »
Saying that Murphy is the last true blue mortal on the team is a good point. However, her getting so badly wounded by Nic that she'll never recover 100% is also a point where you got to wonder what her future role as "the normal" is going to be in the series. It's fully possible that she'll transition into another role, but given how much her identity has been to be this tough woman, I bet it would trigger even more of an identity crisis than she already had after having to leave the CPD.


Offline Con

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2017, 03:33:22 AM »
Saying that Murphy is the last true blue mortal on the team is a good point. However, her getting so badly wounded by Nic that she'll never recover 100% is also a point where you got to wonder what her future role as "the normal" is going to be in the series. It's fully possible that she'll transition into another role, but given how much her identity has been to be this tough woman, I bet it would trigger even more of an identity crisis than she already had after having to leave the CPD.

hmm possibly I think it'd give her the purpose she's seeking, though she'd have issue's with being a Merc (despite being fun buddies with a blood thirsty mercenary whose killed thousands... hypocrite) and with her Faith. I think once she gets an inside look she'd appreciate what Vadderung's doing and would like the order, the discipline, warrior culture that respects women warriors and one way or another fights for protection of man kind.

Though certainly it'd require several scene's or a short story or two for her to go through the same crisis of Faith the Dresden went through in Skin Game.

Offline Wolfeyes

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2017, 03:51:48 AM »
I don't see Valkyrie in Murphy's future. WoJ also said that Murphy wouldn't get any power ups so I think it's fair to say she'll probably stay vanilla human. However, I don't think there's no place for her by staying that way, especially since she's repeatedly shown her abilities to adapt throughout the series. Even in GS, a large part of what she was doing there was managing people and organizing - those are pretty essential skills.

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2017, 04:16:50 AM »
I'm conflicted...

On one hand, the stories are journeying too far into the deep end of magical society for a simple mortal to hold their own. We can argue about Valmont's "It's how smart you are" remark all we want. But... well, there's a certain point where a mortal needs to resort to remote controlled weaponry, or heavy vehicles instead of a few guns and gadgets.

I don't see Valkyrie in Murphy's future. WoJ also said that Murphy wouldn't get any power ups so I think it's fair to say she'll probably stay vanilla human. However, I don't think there's no place for her by staying that way, especially since she's repeatedly shown her abilities to adapt throughout the series. Even in GS, a large part of what she was doing there was managing people and organizing - those are pretty essential skills.


I know JB has said that...but I don't know that he'll be able to keep it.

As Smaug notes, Karrin's role in the story is start to strain a bit.  She isn't precisely a liability to Harry in emergencies, but at the same time, things are becoming such that she's not as much of an asset as she once was, either.  Her skills are useful but she's freaking fragile.

That's no put-down of Karrin.  But without some kind of power up, or something, the point is coming where it's going be very hard to see what her function in the story is.  Is she Harry's backup in tight situations?  Well, she can do that, to a degree...but Molly can do it as well or better now.  I keep thinking about when Harry went into Marcone's office to present the weregild, back by Molly.  She was utterly natural in that role...and she can wield serious magic.  (That's aside from being WL.)

(I could see a weird jokey dynamic emerging with them, Harry and Molly deciding if in a given situation they're about to be the Winter Lady backed up by her Winter Knight, or Wizard Harry Dresden backed up by his faithful sidekick Wizard Molly Carpenter.

"OK, so we have to confront Mother Winter about this," Harry said.  "I'll back you up.'

"It wouldn't be appropriate for the Lady and the Knight to do such a thing," Molly said.  "So Wizard Dresden had better do it.  I'll be right behind you."

"The Merlin would throw a fit if we involve Council Wizards in Mother Winter's business," Harry countered.  "This is Sidhe business.  But I'll back you all the way!"

"You wouldn't send a helpless girl to face Mother Winter?" Molly asked, suddenly sounding remarkably delicate and frail.

"Never!" Harry averred.  "Luckily you're the Winter Lady instead of a helpless girl."

"You've been hanging around Marcone too much," Molly grumbled, sounding like herself again.  "You're getting sensible."
)

Is Karrin his contact with the mortal law?  Well, not exactly, not anymore, and events are moving in directions where Harry's contacts need to be higher level than Chicago PD anyway.  Harry needs some FBI contacts, maybe some Scotland Yard contacts, etc.  CIA and SVR wouldn't hurt, either.

Is she the head of the Chicago Alliance?  Well, she sort of is, as much as anybody is, but it's not clear that this is that big a deal at the levels Harry now moves on.  Sort of like being head of the Paranet.  A useful contact, but still....

Karrin gets hurt in Skin Game, so she doesn't get to go on the mission.  But what exactly would she had contributed if she had?  That's a serious question, not a put down of Karrin.  That mission needed major backup, and JB ended up giving Harry Sir Michael and Goodman, both of whom can do far more than Karrin can.

I don't know what JB has in mind, but I don't see Karrin's role in the story continuing as it's been for much longer.  I'm not sure how it can work.



Offline Mira

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2017, 11:58:00 AM »
I don't see Valkyrie in Murphy's future. WoJ also said that Murphy wouldn't get any power ups so I think it's fair to say she'll probably stay vanilla human. However, I don't think there's no place for her by staying that way, especially since she's repeatedly shown her abilities to adapt throughout the series. Even in GS, a large part of what she was doing there was managing people and organizing - those are pretty essential skills.

If she dies I could see Gard assuring Harry that as a warrior she has a place in Valhalla, but I don't see her coming back either.   If she dies I think she will find a place and be happy helping her dad to serve Uriel.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:05:40 PM by Mira »

Offline Rasins

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2017, 03:02:03 PM »
I'm kind of with Mira, except for one thing.

Murphy is a Catholic.

Now, there is nothing to prevent her being one of the chosen, but her residing in Valhalla in her afterlife would cause a conflict with TWG (I'd think).

Then again, we have seen where one's actions prepare one for things that are not what you'd think (cough-cough Winter lady mantle).  So, it's entirely possible that Karrin's actions have prepared her for the Enherjerin (however you spell it.)
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Offline dspringer1

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2017, 03:23:24 PM »
Murphy may take a different role -- that of advisor and chief of staff for Dresden.  He already has a track record of going to Murphy for advice and Murphy already has a track record of organizing the Paranet. 

I can totally see Murphy being lost (career wise) in Peace Talks and leaving Peace Talks with new direction -- as the warleader of Harry's forces.  She will be the one that coordinates the paranet, works closely with Billy, leverages the wee folk, and coordinates with SI, manages alliances with other powers.   After all, she has already been doing this while Harry has been dead.  Harry is still going to be there at the decision points, but the groundwork behind these decisions can now be delegated to Murphy. 

We have already started to see trends of Harry working the political game, managing allies, coordinating with larger organizations.  Many believe that Harry will be on the senior council and/or the Merlin at some point in the series.   He cannot assume those roles as a lone wolf.   Murphy successful as "chief of staff" can (over time) give him the credibility to assume those roles - because Harry would have shown he can manage larger organizations effectively. 

And the fact that Murphy is still vanilla mortal in this role has many valuable effects -- some of which were already mentioned on this thread.   

Offline RobReece

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 03:34:43 PM »
I think I can see Murphy being coopted by the Librarians...

Offline Rasins

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 05:48:54 PM »
Dspringer1,

I've been thinking about Harry's future, and he wont make the Senior Council during the series.  After, who knows, but not during.  He's just too young.  Sure, they could change the way they pick the SC, but I doubt that's going to happen.

Now, that's not to say he won't be A leader of the council by the time the BAT rolls around.  I think he'll have the Blackstaff by then, and that'll be his major role in the council.

RobReece - I could totally see that, except that I doubt that Jim wants Murphy to disappear.  I think that would have to happen for her to join the Librarians.
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Offline Anubissama

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 07:13:40 PM »
I've been thinking about Harry's future, and he wont make the Senior Council during the series. 

My personal WAG? Once everything is set and done, the BAT is survived etc. There is no White Council anymore. There is the Paranet and its highest position is the Dresden.
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Offline jonas

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Re: Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2017, 07:36:38 PM »
So, two years ago Jim hinted on Twitter that he was writing Murphy's funeral.

It could have been a joke, but if Murphy really dies in Peace Talk, I would postulate that the most likely reason is to raise her as a Valkyrie. It seems to soon to end her and Harry's fledgling relationship, but, IMO, there are just too many things which would fall into place to not make this at least a very likely proposition:

- It solves the aging issue for her relationship with Harry
- It gives her a new purpose in life, after losing her old one, when she left Chicago police
- There has been foreshadowing for it, her training with the Einherjar and getting close with Odin's organization
- It is a source of future conflict, when her working for Odin comes into conflict with something Harry is doing

Maybe this is a bit too obvious, though. A lot of people thought that Karrin would be the next wielder for one of the swords and Jim trolled us in that regard. What do you guys think?
Murphy's dead. She dies tragically. More than that, all I really wanna theorize on this one at this point, Is when am I going to get to read this great story I see coming lol.
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