Author Topic: hypothetical vs scenario  (Read 3818 times)

Offline khadgar4606

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hypothetical vs scenario
« on: February 25, 2017, 02:48:20 PM »
First i dont know i need to put this in ask one quyestion treat or other treat.
Seo here is the question kemmler vs ferrovax who wins?
no morals
kemmler just succesfully pulled darkhollow on Washington dc

Offline Walker_In_The_Mist

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 03:04:59 PM »
Well, the actual answer is we don't really have a way to know as we haven't really seen either of them get into it.  That being said I'm pretty sure Ferrovax would get the short end of that fight pretty bad.  If I recall correctly Jim has placed Ferrovax as more powerful than any one senior council member, on par with Eldest Gruff or a Queen.  Kemmler required the ENTIRE WHITE COUNCIL to personally take the field, not just the senior council, not just the wardens, not just the "Archangel brute squad"  but the entire white council.  And that is before you just gave him another massive power boost.  So I go with Kemmler as a good-odds favorite.  Most likely result: neither bothers to have the fight, work out some sort of deal while waiting to try a sneaky back-stab, neither are featherweights after all, nor are they predisposed to a fair fight.

Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 08:27:34 PM »
Jim hasn't said too much about Ferrovax, but based on this I'm pretty sure he's stronger than the White Council as a whole. Or Kemmler.

But having Kemmler perform (another?) Darkhallow would certainly make him stronger. So while my money's still on Ferrovax, I'm not confident in the call.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 03:00:00 AM »
Jim hasn't said too much about Ferrovax, but based on this I'm pretty sure he's stronger than the White Council as a whole. Or Kemmler.

Ferrovax is two steps down that list from the White Council (albeit all of them working in concert, and with an additional caveat).
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 03:42:35 AM »
I don't think the list is in order of strength. If it was, I think Drakul and Ferrovax would have similar caveats. And the Mothers would come before Titania.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 04:45:00 AM »
What of that post, then, were you using for the basis of your conclusion that Ferrovax is stronger than the whole of the Council?
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Offline Sanctaphrax

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 06:15:12 AM »
The White Council would apparently need Mab's name. Ferrovax apparently wouldn't. So I'm guessing he's stronger.

Offline Taran

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 12:34:14 PM »
It says that if Cowl had succeeded on the Darkhallow, he'd be able to beat her too, without a truename and, presumably, Cowl would have become as powerful as Kemmler?

All that to say, we are back to square one.

Offline Tedronai

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 02:02:39 PM »
The White Council would apparently need Mab's name. Ferrovax apparently wouldn't. So I'm guessing he's stronger.
To me, 'the White Council would need Mab's Name' sounds very near to 'Ferrovax would need to use fire'.  Knowing things, digging up secrets, is part of what the White Council does.

It says that if Cowl had succeeded on the Darkhallow, he'd be able to beat her too, without a truename and, presumably, Cowl would have become as powerful as Kemmler?
As powerful, maybe.  But, as I would argue, much less skilled with that power.  All of Kemmler's disciples seem to have been basically half-trained, at most, when it came to his particular teachings.
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Offline g33k

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 03:26:44 AM »
"Age and Treachery will always overcome youth and skill."

A being such as Ferrovax (or Mab) will win:  young punks like Cowl or Kemmler simply won't be able to take them by surprise.

They will feel the power of a Darkhallow/etc accumulating, look at the situation and say "oh HELL no" and take a closer look; then give somebody like Harry Dresden the needed nudge (or subtly run interference for him) such that the Darkhallow (or any other world-destabilizing plot) fails.

And then there's Uriel...  Nobody wants to be on the downside of Uriel's machinations.  Nobody.
 

Offline Quantus

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 01:42:52 PM »
Per Mab in DB, Kemmler never actually completed the Darkhallow, though he did lesser versions that made him more powerful than average (in addition to demonic influences and everything else). 

On the assumption that Darkhallowed Cowl is more or less equal to Darkhallowed Kemmler, then both of them cold take Mab in a straight fight without qualification, as could Drakul. 

Between Ferro and any Necro-God, absent other information I think my money is on the Necro-god on the logic that the Dragon has cosmic level Power that normally comes with lots and lots of limitations, whereas the newly born deity wouldnt have gotten those boundaries yet. 

And I think both would loose to Drakul, who is apparently some really weird special case in just about everything, that  he's a former Immortal that somehow got trapped as a Mortal.  But that makes him the only being on the List that would theoretically have intact Free Will and also the power to take Mab in a fair fight.  Those two are advantages I dont think any of the others would be able to counter. 
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Offline khadgar4606

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2017, 04:27:42 PM »
Can you explain why drakul is in the fight mate. I created this treat to answer a simple question not to lets create dresden files battle royale in the same forum

Offline Quantus

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2017, 05:55:48 PM »
Can you explain why drakul is in the fight mate. I created this treat to answer a simple question not to lets create dresden files battle royale in the same forum
The Question was who would win between a freshly risen Darkhallow Necro-God and Ferro, and the only data-points we have to compare those two are Mab and Drakul, through the list that Sanctaphrax linked to.  Not trying to derail the thread, I thought it was pertinent to the topic at hand. 

EDIT: To elaborate on the train of though:  The two things that seem to be most relevant in DV fights like this are Power Level and Freedom to Act.  Without further data, we can place Mab, Ferro, NecroGod, and Drakul in the same class but cannot make much inference between them.  However, we know both Mab and Ferro are directly restricted in what they are capable of doing, regardless of whether it's in their power.  Drakul, unlike Ferro or Mab, is Mortal and so (presumably) has his Free Will intact. The Necro-god is something of a wildcard in that regard; most likely he would Loose his soul during the ascension process that birthed the new immortal but it's possible that he'd retain it (even temporarily) which would provide a direct power boost via leveraging Free Will of the soul for increased Freedom, just like the Denarians and their Hosts.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 07:12:51 PM by Quantus »
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Offline g33k

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Re: hypothetical vs scenario
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 07:55:23 PM »
Can you explain why drakul is in the fight mate. I created this treat to answer a simple question not to lets create dresden files battle royale in the same forum
Thread drift.  'nuf said.   8)

But if you'd rather:  the plain and simple NEED to use interpolation and triangulation (i.e. other Dresdenverse heavyweights) to even BEGIN to even TRY to answer your question... which (contrary to your claim nere) is NOT a "simple" question!

Third answer:  "yes".  That is to say, whatever answer YOU prefer is the right one FOR YOU... and I cite "Deadpool Kills the Marvel Universe."  Either wins.  Neither/both win, in a mutual kill.  They fight to a stalemate.  Or whatever.