Author Topic: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]  (Read 30556 times)

Jaken

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2016, 01:30:25 AM »
Noticed something maybe, long have I suspected the walkers as being the primary agents of Nfection, I favor 4 total over 3 and I noticed, there are 3 that go after Molly and a 4th stronger one that stays behind when Harry casts his specll to divert them. I have before likened scarecrows form and function in its similarity to fearbringers. But can hhwbh be placed as well?
Because of a thread griff made on the simularities of cat Sith and hwwbh Ive been looking for others, the cat(Alice and wonderland cat...?) that attacks Harry inside the theater has simular tufts of Hair as is later described on hwwbh himself.
Bit confusing cause of the timeline, but if time is a river and things that exist outside of it are on land, then they can reach in whenever is pertinent or they have a solid beacon to attach to and pull out whatever comes with them for their memetic form.
Idk I'll have to look more.... Comments?

Offline Nomad

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2016, 01:48:06 AM »
A slight deviation from your original theory;
it doesn't have to be TTH that does the 1-2-3 on your list.
One of the complications of TTH's mission might be tracking down another time traveler, albeit one that is... suffering from certain mental issues, ala hallucinations and being lost in his/her own mind/imagination... Imagine someone trying to stop evil Harry doppelganger thing from luring Murphy (or someone else) into a trap, except the idiot isn't ware that it's in the past and targeting the wrong thing and mucking stuff up on an impressive scale...
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2016, 02:18:46 AM »
I've never been that convinced of the "traveling back to find another traveler" plot.  It seems more likely to me that he'll need to travel back for information.  I'm not sure who would go back like that, unless it's a multi-temporal assault (again) or a turned enemy going back to help with the AT attack, even though that doesn't make temporal sense.

Offline Nomad

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2016, 02:29:33 AM »
Grif;
No, nonoononono, apologies for misunderstanding/miscommunication
I didn't want to imply that he came after someone, think someone very powerful but also quite deep in the cukoo lander territory (possibly not experiencing the flow of time as mortals do) trying to "help" TTHarry, on it's own volition.
Think Fizban and his fireballs in the dragonlance stories.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2016, 02:47:27 AM »
Grif;
No, nonoononono, apologies for misunderstanding/miscommunication
I didn't want to imply that he came after someone, think someone very powerful but also quite deep in the cukoo lander territory (possibly not experiencing the flow of time as mortals do) trying to "help" TTHarry, on it's own volition.
Think Fizban and his fireballs in the dragonlance stories.
I never read that series, so I don't get the reference.  But others have suggested he's got to go back to stop another traveler.  I just think that's too Terminator, but if anyone could pull it off, it'd be JB.

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2016, 02:47:48 AM »
I've never been that convinced of the "traveling back to find another traveler" plot.  It seems more likely to me that he'll need to travel back for information.  I'm not sure who would go back like that, unless it's a multi-temporal assault (again) or a turned enemy going back to help with the AT attack, even though that doesn't make temporal sense.
Really?  It seems like chasing a villain through time would be the most likely reason for Harry to go back in time to me.  Just information doesn't seem like a good enough reason to need to go back in time.  He can bargain with people in the present for secrets.
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Offline Sir Huron Stone

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2016, 02:52:39 AM »
First things first: Serack, I love your theory, and the work you put into it.

Second: I just have this image in my head of Harry walking in on Eb working some time traveling ritual, and somehow falling in and ending back in PG and seeing himself driving down the street and not getting hit by another car, freaking out, stealing a car, and hitting himself to keep the timeline going, and then it all just snowballing from there. And possibly fighting off other people that, if he does not do so, will completely rolfstomp PGH because he doesn't see them coming, or isn't prepared to fight them, or just isn't strong enough yet.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2016, 03:04:46 AM »
Really?  It seems like chasing a villain through time would be the most likely reason for Harry to go back in time to me.  Just information doesn't seem like a good enough reason to need to go back in time.  He can bargain with people in the present for secrets.
Unless the only person that had the information is dead.  There were theories a while back that Mab, Lea, or someone else might die before the casefiles are over.  Others have speculated that he'll need to use Little Chicago to find something. 

As for someone going back... the only reason to go back would be to help with the attack on Arctis Tor.  But since the TTH theory largely calls for a stable loop via time bridge, the events occurring would occur once, and remain unchanged.  If you throw that out, then it ruins the link to the events that already passed in PG.

For example, let's say Ferro decides to go back to help fight against AT.  That means he doesn't recall participating the first time, and no-one that did reported his participation.  But since we've already "seen" Future Harry's participation in events during PG, it means that whoever he followed back was also there.

The only way it works is if the person going back (or anyone they know, including surviving allies) doesn't know they already did, and that it failed.

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2016, 03:52:31 AM »
Unless the only person that had the information is dead.  There were theories a while back that Mab, Lea, or someone else might die before the casefiles are over.  Others have speculated that he'll need to use Little Chicago to find something. 

As for someone going back... the only reason to go back would be to help with the attack on Arctis Tor.  But since the TTH theory largely calls for a stable loop via time bridge, the events occurring would occur once, and remain unchanged.  If you throw that out, then it ruins the link to the events that already passed in PG.

For example, let's say Ferro decides to go back to help fight against AT.  That means he doesn't recall participating the first time, and no-one that did reported his participation.  But since we've already "seen" Future Harry's participation in events during PG, it means that whoever he followed back was also there.

The only way it works is if the person going back (or anyone they know, including surviving allies) doesn't know they already did, and that it failed.
But with players like Mab/Odin/Uriel, are there really bits of important information that could have died with someone?  Maybe, but I can't imagine what it would be.

I was thinking broader than just PG for the time travel book anyway.  Time travel is too convenient of a way to actually show all of the behind the scenes moves the BC has made throughout the series beyond just PG.  It's a show vs tell issue from a writing perspective. 

I don't think you have to throw out a stable loop with a chase book.  Say some BC player goes back in time to try to change history.  The right push at the right time can snowball into drastic changes.  The BC/Outside has had so many close calls with big game over plots that you have quite a few chances to make a huge impact.  Furthermore say that since time travel is so expensive to pull off only someone with a small enough metaphysical mass (Harry + possible sidekick) can go after them.  It took Kringle to send the Wild Hunt forward less than a day (hours or minutes? I can't remember), so to send Harry years into the past may take a huge amount of power.  (If the "rubber band" theory of time holds water, they might have to send Harry back several different instances to several different times) 

At that point, Jim can handle it like Prisoner of Azkaban.  Avoid your past self and try to change as little as possible, but the changes you do make still fit into the original timeline.  The book becomes an investigation of where the BC member will try to change history and Harry somehow quietly foiling those different plans in the nick of time.  So, Harry not acting would be an alteration of the original timeline and allowing the BC member to win.

PG basically requires time travel to make sense, so that will be a major part of the book.  But you can also fulfill the WoJ of seeing Sue again by jumping to DB for instance.  For a bonus if TT!Harry meets Mab at some point, she gets proof that one day he'll be her knight, hence her definitive statements about him eventually accepting.  Really, we could revisit many of the major scenes in the series as a recap before heading into the BAT.
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Offline raidem

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2016, 10:48:08 AM »
Lots of which, I've been arguing for quite awhile. 

I like your write up.  I do believe team bad attempted an assault on the timeline.  TTharry gets a chance to remedy it.

I will point out that any case in which we have TT people going into the past say to pg, it proves the case that their already is some future case, or iteration.  So many fail to realize it when they assert these types of theories.
From pgs perspective there exists a future timeline.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 10:53:45 AM by raidem »
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Offline nedserD C B yrraH

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2016, 04:15:32 PM »
I love the idea of Harry having to Prisoner of Azkaban it. But instead of conjuring a Patronus he has to shoot himself in the back during Changes. I also relish the possibility that JB will have Harry use multiple different TT tropes. Harry has always been aware of pop/geek culture. I'm not saying he's gonna get in a Tardis but Harry has mentioned Buckaroo Bonzai, a greatly underappreciated time travel film.  Yeah, I said it, film.
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Offline Serack

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2016, 04:29:12 PM »
Quote
I started channeling our force into the staff, focusing it into a blunted wedge in front of us. All the
extra power flooding ahead of us started heating the air, and flickers of blue and purple fire began
streaking back around us in a corona, like one of the space shuttles on reentry.

I think Harry inadvertently tapped into a time manipulation.   That motorcycle, as we see in Cold Days, has a history with time travel.  It is also likely that Cold Days isn't the first time it rode with The Wild Hunt.  Thomas rode that motorcyle in Dead Beat, I believe.  He did get pulled into the Hunt then.  It's also a vehicle strongly resistant to active mortal magic.

*blink blink*

Keen observations!  If I get the chance some day, I'll ask if Murph has had the same bike through the series, and if it's having been involved as a conveyance in so many significant supernatural events, has resulted in it's gaining its own power like you've mentioned an athame can. 

Time to nomnom more responses.
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Offline bigdangmoose

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2016, 02:04:44 AM »
The idea of the motorcycle gaining power is an interesting one.

Now, here's an idea for a TT plot. It's been thrown around that JB had said that he had an idea for one of the books that involved Harry being in a mental institute. What if that is the part that starts everything off. Harry goes to bed one night, say after a night at Will and Georgia's playing games, and wakes up the next day in the asylum. He finds that all of his friends have turned their backs on him except Michael. And through talking through Michael, he finds out that the events of PG were altered. And the day he was gone in PG plays a part of it. That the black magic going around Chicago wasn't just Molly, but some other bigger player. And TTHarry needs to make sure that PGHarry finds Molly while TTHarry takes care of the bigger issue.

Think Men in Black 3. I know, not a great movie, but interesting TT plot.
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Offline Cyberchihuahua

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2016, 02:28:37 AM »
A small item, but maybe TTH locked up Pell's theater in order to keep Murphy from going inside and getting killed by the guard Fetches.
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Offline peregrine

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Re: Serack's Proven Guilty workup [Spoilers for the whole series]
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2016, 03:12:36 AM »
On the one hand, what history with time travel does the motorcycle have other than what we see during Cold Days?

On the other hand, I think Jim has mentioned something about how Murph's bike doesn't seem to have any problems operating despite the massive amounts of magic Harry is wielding right next to it.